MudNCrud Forums
Climbing and ... Climbing => Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles => Topic started by: Atomizer on April 14, 2014, 09:22:41 AM
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Had a great weekend with Joe and Kelly's crowd down at the Pinns this last weekend.
We even had fun visit from Brad, which I thougt was quite productive for my goal of getting Brad on Foreplay. We negotiated that for the next guidebook he can continue to call POD 10d if he can successfully climb Foreplay.
But the real substance of this post is to tackle the issue of secret crags. When talking with Brad he eluded to the secret area in development where himself, JC and others have put up 6 or more routes. Brad wouldn't tell us where this operation was going down.
So what's with the secrecy? To me it feels kind of insulting when someone rubs it in your face that they have something new as Brad did verbally and as JC has done through the posting of numerous pictures, but then they will not tell you where it is. It's not like Joe and I are going to steal undone routes or booty your leaver biners. Right now neither of us are physically capable of hand drilling bolts anyways.
I only know maybe ten people who are even interested in putting up routes at Pinnacles and most of them are right here on this forum. Do we really have to be so secretive? I do know that there are dozens of lurkers who read every post on this forum and have never posted, so I understand that this might not be the place to post about secretive ops.
Maybe a secret is best kept a secret until you are ready to reveal it. This halfway secret thing just seems insulting to me. Makes me want to find the place and steal some FAs.
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Atom,
My take on half secret crags is 'good for them' for being excited about projects, and as a fellow developer I also at the same time fully understand the need to keep locations from becoming public.
It's not intentionally exclusionary, but more de facto exclusionary brought on by the fun and excitement of new routes.
my two cents,
M
ps- sometimes a half reveal is a hook and line to see if someone is interested in biting on helping out with the projects too. Not always though as I've come to learn.
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Had a great weekend with Joe and Kelly's crowd down at the Pinns this last weekend.
We even had fun visit from Brad, which I thougt was quite productive for my goal of getting Brad on Foreplay. We negotiated that for the next guidebook he can continue to call POD 10d if he can successfully climb Foreplay.
But the real substance of this post is to tackle the issue of secret crags. When talking with Brad he eluded to the secret area in development where himself, JC and others have put up 6 or more routes. Brad wouldn't tell us where this operation was going down.
So what's with the secrecy? To me it feels kind of insulting when someone rubs it in your face that they have something new as Brad did verbally and as JC has done through the posting of numerous pictures, but then they will not tell you where it is. It's not like Joe and I are going to steal undone routes or booty your leaver biners. Right now neither of us are physically capable of hand drilling bolts anyways.
I only know maybe ten people who are even interested in putting up routes at Pinnacles and most of them are right here on this forum. Do we really have to be so secretive? I do know that there are dozens of lurkers who read every post on this forum and have never posted, so I understand that this might not be the place to post about secretive ops.
Maybe a secret is best kept a secret until you are ready to reveal it. This halfway secret thing just seems insulting to me. Makes me want to find the place and steal some FAs.
"You mad bro?" LOL J/K......those crazy kids and their FA's I tell you. That Joe guy does love his free bail gear. That is a known FACT!
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"You mad bro?" LOL J/K......those crazy kids and their FA's I tell you. That Joe guy does love his free bail gear. That is a known FACT!
I'm not mad at all. Just curious as spurred on by some discussions Joe and had this weekend about human nature as related to Masters of Mud. Playing the devils advocate here.
I think I'm more concerned with the ownership issues that are involved. Why do you feel you are entitled to keep it secret? I can understand why if the area is sensitive to impact from increased visitation or if it may have very unique climbs for the area that others would be interested in bagging. But we are talking obscure 5.6-5.9 routes (which there are many at Pinnacles) that are likely to see less than 10 ascents ever. It's not like you guys have found another Monolith or Cookie Cliff. Maybe the area would be enriched by providing opportunities for others to do FAs.
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Damn, Adam, I had absolutely no intention of insulting you or anyone else. I'm sorry if I did so. You're an excellent climber and you greatly inspire my Pinns efforts (as soon as I finish all the "sub 5.10" routes at Pinns I'm really hoping you and Gavin can help me get some harder redpoints that I've been missing, like Foreplay and getting back on Resurrection Wall).
Here are some reasons/explanations for the "half secrecy:"
- There's a long, long tradition of such secrecy and even of very occasional attempted route stealing at Pinns (although I agree with you that "stealing" wouldn't be likely with this crew on this forum, or for that matter with any of us currently active on new routes at Pinns - there's just no way);
- What Rob said above;
- Also, I haven't revealed anything at all about the area - recall that Joe was pushing me (in a friendly manner) to tell about "where I'd climbed that day," but I didn't raise the subject at all - not at all - and I didn't choose to talk at all about it;
- This is an area that I "discovered" 10 years ago, which I thought had the potential for two or three routes, but which will probably take 30 (no kidding). I happened to suggest going there one day to J.C., Clink, and Waldo, since we were climbing together that day (if I had been with you or anyone else, I'd have made the same suggestion). As we explored the area, I realized that there were two routes there that I really, really wanted to do myself. We finished one of those on Saturday, but there's one more - the one I want to do the most. This project still has only one bolt in it (the next stance will be very, very tenuous with no aid possibilities). I'd be very, very disappointed if another climber "stole" that route. It has the potential to be the only three-star climb I'll ever have established in the park;
- Your and Joe's friendship is much more important than any climb though. I'm going to call you both when I'm done keyboarding to apologize and to tell you where in the hell we've been. I hope you'll take my call and I trust that you'll not spread the word too much so I can maybe get this one more route done (and this one more route will almost certainly have to wait until next season, since this one is wrapping up quickly).
Thanks for calling this out and not just being angry inside.
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Adam, I was kidding and hope you know that. You raised an excellent point and I see both sides to it. Brad and Rob both nailed the response......the climber me wants to go explore the new routes while I know If I was putting them up I'd remain protective until some TBD date for the reasons Brad mentioned. This happens elsewhere too where we hear about "secret crags" that are un-published either due to the FA's wanting to pick them off or due to access issues, etc.
At any rate have fun and be safe.
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I won't post any more pics and will be happy to take the ones down that I did post.
I just wanted to share some pics on here with people who might appreciate what we are doing since I am sick of book face.
:confused:
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I won't post any more pics and will be happy to take the ones down that I did post.
I just wanted to share some pics on here with people who might appreciate what we are doing since I am sick of book face.
Don't do that. Please continue as you have. I only posted this to bring awareness to why we have secrets. And looking for something to do today. I knew this would provoke some very good responses and that is why I'm posting.
Also I just talked to Brad for 30+ mins. Very good conversation. Looking forward to having fun with everyone this next weekend. But first there is a 3-star route (worthy of a secret) waiting to be finished.
And yes refrain from posting on the FACECRACK, just not worth it.
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I think part of it is because over the course of time there is a history of people jumping routes. Sometimes it has even been done accidentally. As in, oh did not realize that was complete, just thought it was a bit run out at the top. I think people mainly just want to have fun putting up routes without the stress of competing for the new routes. It is a long history and I guess tradition.
EDIT:
My post came in late but says what has already been said. I will also say that I have been guilty of said tactic even when I probably should not.
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For a really good conversation on the subject listen to THE ENORMOCAST episode 2
http://enormocast.com/episode-2-take-your-secret-and-shove-it/
The Enormocast is very worth listening too if you haven't already.
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The rock quality is at best High Peaks typical.
We could remove unused holds on the Monolith and epoxy them on these new routes to gain star status.
We should keep that a secret.
I started working on the "mine" thing at preschool and am now ready to share, for instance a mocha freddo just now with my wife and 3 younger daughters.
Atomizer, though we havn't met, there are some lines I would gladly belay you on and try to follow. One in particular a green streak in another location.
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The masters of secrets.
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The masters of secrets.
:confused:
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I only know maybe ten people who are even interested in putting up routes at Pinnacles and most of them are right here on this forum. Do we really have to be so secretive?
YES! Don't you realize who you are talking about?
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If my finger was not hurt I would be dangerous.
clink, I like Latte's and dark beer.
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BTW . Congratulations JC, KC, and Brad on an ascent of an unclimbed pinnacle. The peak of that area ascent. Spectacular and historical. When was the last time something like this was done at the Pinns?
If you had let the secret out it may have led to rock throwing to impede competing teams from the other valley. Or in celebration.
It aint over till it's over.
Remember the Matterhorn
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BTW . Congratulations JC, KC, and Brad on an ascent of an unclimbed pinnacle.
clink - Give yourself a bouldery slap on the back - Your bold moves and bolt got it started!
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clink - Give yourself a bouldery slap on the back - Your bold moves and bolt got it started!
Something about contractors and their ability to swing a hammer....
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Something about contractors and their ability to swing a hammer….
Yeah, that's no shit. Clink can drill like a fiend...
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The sport climbers way of doing Foreplay differs from the traditional climbers style. Sport climbers do less heavy breathing and frantic groping, they also move quicker and finish faster, with few excuses.
Some of us are born Trad climbers.
That is why "Trad climbers do it better."
Good luck on Foreplay.
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The Matterhorn? Is that behind the Hand?
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The Alamo
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I think I saw the Matterhorn in The Deserted Valley last weekend.
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I'm that troll looking for the secret areas...
So I can rap bolt them! Chip holds! And steal you gear!
Muhahahahahhahahahaha...
Actually, its been so long since I posted that I couldn't remember my username...
Freaking troll.
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pics! Word on the street is there was some sending happening on Mono.
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I'm that troll looking for the secret areas...
So I can rap bolt them! Chip holds! And steal you gear!
Muhahahahahhahahahaha...
I'll show you, all you need to bring is a shovel. >:D
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So who chopped the those routes on the back of the Mono? Actually I haven't confirmed this but I assume its a reality.
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What? Really?
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AND speaking of Mono (and thread drift)...whats that line of new bolts moving left again from Foreplay? Thought that an old natty aid line....
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Tailspin 12 something.
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I could not find any bolts for the alleged new lines last time I was down there.
Did they ever exist?
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The backside routes did exist. I tried one of them and once I got past Tom's bolts they were all horribly placed, I couldn't even find ways to put the draws on. I fell like 20 times trying to get the 5th draw on. I was so pisssed. I confronted the FA party and they said,"I intended for a double draw to be placed there". Ridiculous!!! Rap bolted and meant to have the draws placed on rap too.
I can't remember who it was, but I was confronted by someone who accused me of chopping the bolts. Ill ask Tom. He would be my guess.
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Why chop bolts?
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yeah, why chop when you can pull and patch?
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yeah, why chop when you can pull and patch?
For the hangers!! Lol
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It's not important who pulled, but THAT they were pulled.
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Pull or chop... same thing.
The routes weren't really worthy anyways.
Mucci?
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Why chop bolts?
Since you asked...http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=1705.msg19766#msg19766 (http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=1705.msg19766#msg19766)
...short response rap bolted and did not bother to even seek the permission of the first accessionist.