MudNCrud Forums
Climbing and ... Climbing => Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles => Topic started by: mungeclimber on December 07, 2014, 07:28:41 PM
-
I have a certain amount of respect for crappy FA's.
There is something telling about this post that resonates with me. What it says, I think, is that the FA's subjective experience is deserving of respect despite the "outcome" aka the collective post hoc judgment of the aesthetic qualities of the line.
So many times this antecedent evaluation of aesthetics is born from the "must be fun" commandment. Garbage climbs being, per se not fun. I think at times, without the loss-leading 'crappy' lines being established as a big 'FU' to a collective herd mentality about the supposed value of a climb, we become pushed along the distribution curve to the middle and mediocre.
Exceptionality, in the form of garbage climbs, has a signifying value all it's own in reasserting what the standard deviation can and should be.
Take for example Fritz's story about an FA in the backcountry of Idaho (?) where they climbed several, horribly loose with big blocks, pitches. It was a direct line, but never reported. But in reading about it, the idea of how terrible it was reset my calculation. So horrible you wouldn't ever report it, but it being a directissima, and still no reportage?
Choss is the yin to the yang. The dark to the light. The terrifying to the fun.
-
All of my routes are ****.
-
If it was bad enough for me to worry that friends would get curious, get on it and get hurt, I'd keep my mouth shut. That only happened once or twice. Hell, I've even forgotten what we did and where we did it.
-
For me it was a matter of really liking to climb. Initially I just wanted to climb so anything that was within my abilities was on the list. After a bit I started seeking out routes with as many stars as possible. After years of climbing I noticed many of the really good climbs blurred together but the routes with less stars really stood out and on occasion had plenty of character. What also surprised me is some of the no star routes had some perfect pitches or super good sections. These routes sometimes had diversity and character that fully stared routes did not have. The other contributor was the fact that I fell in love with the Pinnacles which has quite a few less than optimal routes. I suppose another contributor is many of the lines that I have put up are not what most people would consider classics. So there is some guilt by association.
-
Like a race where no blue, red or white ribbons are given. If you trip, road rash on your face or breaking something are probable. The finish line is so sweet, even though no one is there but you.
I watched Jim tapping holds yesterday. When I reach a good sized one he tells me "the left side is good". So I tap it and the left is solid sounding, the right side sounds faintly hollow.
Later in the day I blew off a good size hold at the crux of The Back Nine. Aaron used this for both a hand and foothold. My extra 30 lbs plus both pairs of approach shoes were to much for it. Everything was loose at the crux, and a lot of the rest of the route was suspect. I was on top rope.
Kudos to the FAs for getting some of those bolts in.
I won't forget climbing this with Aaron.
I suggest changing the name to "the nine holes out the back of my head from playing roulette". The view was spectacular.
-
If it was bad enough for me to worry that friends would get curious, get on it and get hurt, I'd keep my mouth shut.
Stick your head in a cannon, light the fuse and let's see what happens routes?
Charlie Chaplin and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, except not funny.
Yesterday we were safe, Aaron had me laughing so hard I could hardly climb.
-
Oh yeah, I told you I'd repost Vicki's condor video from January 2010, when we started those routes up there:
If a line looks nice to those who put it up, it's worth the first ascent effort. If subsequent parties don't "like" it, oh well. I more enjoyed the "ATDS" route I led (which I hadn't done before) when I was there with Roger, than I enjoyed my 14th lap up Lava Falls.
Others disagree, finding repeat trips up super quality routes similar to "visiting with good friends."
-
Later in the day I blew off a good size hold at the crux of The Back Nine. Aaron used this for both a hand and foothold. My extra 30 lbs plus both pairs of approach shoes were to much for it. Everything was loose at the crux, and a lot of the rest of the route was suspect. I was on top rope.
I suggest changing the name to "the nine holes out the back of my head from playing roulette". The view was spectacular.
It got two stars dude**
-
It got two stars dude**
The only we found were when Jon pulled the hold off and hit himself in the head and said "I see stars."
Jon how many stars did you see?
-
The Back Nine (attention to detail suggested)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zr6AosQ2vC0/VIYPGRFs24I/AAAAAAAAakc/SymaUE_-fBI/w440-h780-no/20141207_142421.jpg)
Great Views from on top
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cfldbMp69Ao/VIUAxRqWgdI/AAAAAAAAaiU/QDiEQ7XPrw4/w1197-h674-no/20141207_162429.jpg)
-
wow, that is a super cool video!
Later in the day I blew off a good size hold at the crux of The Back Nine. Aaron used this for both a hand and foothold. My extra 30 lbs plus both pairs of approach shoes were to much for it. Everything was loose at the crux, and a lot of the rest of the route was suspect. I was on top rope.
I suggest changing the name to "the nine holes out the back of my head from playing roulette". The view was spectacular.
Was the hold a golf ball sized cobble that was loose? The first time I did the route I got totally fixated on that hold. After looking around a bit I found something better up and to the right to use instead. Knowing that, when I went back to do the route again I did not notice the loose cobble. In fact, I thought it might have broken off. If it's gone maybe there's a good pocket there now.
Fun route that is a good length, well bolted, and in a serene and beautiful location.
-
After the rain.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-luXi01uE0HM/VIYSL680VsI/AAAAAAAAalM/5G80_FPaB8Q/w1040-h780-no/DSC08058.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cXzX6nB-uCk/VIYScSwYxxI/AAAAAAAAam0/6pEZoOCKviE/w1170-h780-no/DSC08071.JPG)
-
There is something telling about this post that resonates with me. What it says, I think, is that the FA's subjective experience is deserving of respect despite the "outcome" aka the collective post hoc judgment of the aesthetic qualities of the line.
So many times this antecedent evaluation of aesthetics is born from the "must be fun" commandment. Garbage climbs being, per se not fun. I think at times, without the loss-leading 'crappy' lines being established as a big 'FU' to a collective herd mentality about the supposed value of a climb, we become pushed along the distribution curve to the middle and mediocre.
Exceptionality, in the form of garbage climbs, has a signifying value all it's own in reasserting what the standard deviation can and should be.
Take for example Fritz's story about an FA in the backcountry of Idaho (?) where they climbed several, horribly loose with big blocks, pitches. It was a direct line, but never reported. But in reading about it, the idea of how terrible it was reset my calculation. So horrible you wouldn't ever report it, but it being a directissima, and still no reportage?
Choss is the yin to the yang. The dark to the light. The terrifying to the fun.
You must be the greatest living chosslosopher of all time :)
-
"The unexamined choss is worth climbing."
-Chosscrates
From the Apology For Mud n Crud
-
Any good quotes by Ashitpileistotle?
-
"In all things Pinnacles, there is something of the marvelous."
-
"hold my beer, this will go clean"
-
"hold my beer, this will go clean"
Ubergoober?
-
"No route is completely worthless. It can always serve as a bad example"
-
"No route is completely worthless. It can always serve as a bad example"
Totally, totally spot on.
-
That's what I said!
Exceptionality, in the form of garbage climbs, has a signifying value all it's own in reasserting what the standard deviation can and should be.
-
"No route is completely worthless. It can always serve as a bad example"
Plus it is a good way to keep Brad busy.
-
keep Brad busy.
Someone could read new books to him.
I think this was one of his favorites growing up.
-
That's what I said!
And, as I re-read it, so you did.
We talk about the good climbs, but somehow, some of the really bad climbs become stories.
-
Rachel is working with me today and came up with one of the most pathetic lines ever. "My jaw hurts from yawning"
Jeez! Rotten rock and kids. >:D
-
This is Rachel- my dad's jaw hurts too from talking too much
-
I love crappy Fa's.
I am on a mission, to climb and name "the worst route" at every area I frequent.
I have 2 confirmed, and one in pinns that probably won't cut the mustard if you mudfreaks keep going at this rate!
-
That's what I said!
I read you loud and clear. I just translated it into a more T-shirt/bumper sticker friendly quote. The quote goes on the front of the shirt and a list of all the "bad" routes can go on the back. :-X
-
This is Rachel- my dad's jaw hurts too from talking too much
buahahahaha!
-
I read you loud and clear. I just translated it into a more T-shirt/bumper sticker friendly quote. The quote goes on the front of the shirt and a list of all the "bad" routes can go on the back. :-X
That sounds awesome!
How much?
-
That sounds awesome!
How much?
That's two great ideas, Noal for the shirt, and Munge for taking Noal seriously (it didn't even occur to me to take that thought seriously).
Dennis did the mugs and now Noal can do the shirts (in fact Dennis, maybe find an extra mug and give it to Noal, he's got all the MoM qualifications).
An orange shirt for J.C. and other colors for normal people.
-
I am on a mission, to climb and name "the worst route" at every area I frequent.
I have seen some awful looking lines recently.
Mucci, I have extra screwdriver you can borrow if you need to tighten anything. ;D
May you succeed and live to tell the story many times.
-
I am normal and am in for a few shirts and the mugs are great.
When is MoM this year, does someone need to get the group site booked?
JC, what did the chick say when his mom laid an orange?
-
I love crappy Fa's.
I am on a mission, to climb and name "the worst route" at every area I frequent.
I have 2 confirmed, and one in pinns that probably won't cut the mustard if you mudfreaks keep going at this rate!
What are the two areas where you've got the crappiest FA?
On SPH, Bruce Bindner has it for sure - it's as bad as any bad Pinns routes.
-
When is MoM this year, does someone need to get the group site booked?
Yup, bout that time to book to get camp deliverance.
I will check.
New rates this year.
Edit: I am booking get April 17-19.
-
some of the really bad climbs become stories.
They quite often make for the best stories.
-
JC, what did the chick say when his mom laid an orange?
Look at the orange Marmalade!
Q. Why was JC staring at the carton of orange juice?
A. It said concentrate.
-
What are the two areas where you've got the crappiest FA?
One is at Mt Hoffman, Munge followed and confirmed it is the worst to date.
The other is a proj, at a undisclosed area in soyo, and it is really bad.
Maybe I can find something to do in pinns with an ice axe al la Beyer....
-
That's two great ideas, Noal for the shirt, and Munge for taking Noal seriously (it didn't even occur to me to take that thought seriously).
Ha Ha, yeah I was kinda joking about that........
Dennis did the mugs and now Noal can do the shirts (in fact Dennis, maybe find an extra mug and give it to Noal, he's got all the MoM qualifications).
uh..... I guess we really could make some funny shirts but who's gonna decide what's on the list for top ten "crappy" FAs? Wanna take a vote? Should they all be by that guy named "unknown" just to play it safe?
-
...who's gonna decide what's on the list for top ten "crappy" FAs?
My vote:
TOP FOUR SCARIEST LEADS AT PINNACLES (that I have done; not in any intentional order):
- 520.5. Seldom Seen Pinnacle - West Face 5.8 X (Take a rope, it'll make you feel like you're not free soloing. Besides, with a rope, if the second pitch leader falls, he might take the belayer with him. Did this with David Harden.)
- 854. Herchel Berchel 5.11a R (I had to be rescued from the third pitch of this the first time I tried it - thanks again Dennis. Did that first try with Robert Behrens. Then did it with Dennis - he led the crux pitch though. So I went back and led that pitch with Jennifer Wang. I've led all three pitches.)
- 0.5 Flake Don't Break 5.9+ (Will any of your gear hold a fall? Will any of your holds stay on the rock? Did this with Gavin Emmons.)
- 413. Needful 5.8 R (We joke about "kitty litter." On this one it's true. Total crap rock and total crap gear. For most of a rope length. I estimate that, while leading this, I knocked off a cumulative total of at least 100 pounds of rock. Did this with Robert Behrens.)
THE NEXT FOUR SCARIEST LEADS AT PINNACLES (that I have done; not in any intentional order):
- 828. Desperado Chute Out - Denny Colliver Direct 5.9 R (Start on an easier route, at a one bolt belay 200 feet up. But that one bolt is backed up by gear scattered between knobs at your feet. And then it's only one rope length to the top; I used a 75 meter rope and still had to brace myself among lodestones for the belay. With no anchor. Oh, and bonus, there's a bolt protecting that 75 meters of climbing. And yes, that's meters, not feet. Did this with Jeff Lane.)
- 822. Icarus 5.9 R A3 (It's hard to define why this one is scary - and yet it scared me a lot. The possible 40 to 50 foot lob off the 5.9 would be all air, and that's safe. The belay at the top of the second pitch is interesting. And, for Kevin, the aid was intricate and hard. Did this with Kevin Deweese.)
- 816. Pigeon Crack 5.6 X (it's really 5.8 X) (It took me three leads of this before I figured out that the climb has never gone further. That's a lot of kitty litter packed into 55 feet. Did this with David Harden and then Jim McConachie and then Kevin Deweese.)
- 792. The Arch - Up the Center 5.8 A3 (In a way this one is odd to be scared on/of. A leader is never more than 40 feet off a usually-sandy/soft creek bed. And yet, with a horrible, pivoting slamming-into-the-vertical-wall potential, and with 10 pitons driven straight up into a Pinnacles roof crack - six of those being knifeblades - I was exhausted, bathed in sweat and completely, utterly spent physically and mentally after this one. I did it with John Cook.)
THE NEXT 17 SCARIEST LEADS AT PINNACLES (that I have done; not in any intentional order):
- 450. Wild Turkey 5.10b R
- 780. Flies on a Pile 5.9 R
- 713. Premeditated 5.5 A3
- 642. Elephant Rock - Never Forget 5.10a R
- 798. Daedalus 5.8 R A1
- 455. Crap Chute 5.9 R
- 411. Needle's Eye 5.8 R
- 375. Outcast - South Face 5.6 R
- 345. Fear and Perspiration 5.10a R
- 340. Atlas Shrugs 5.9 R
- 327. Back of The Hand 5.6 R
- 329. Salathe - Wilts Bolt Variation 5.6 R
- 103. Gutter 5.10b R
- 86. Here Comes the Judge 5.11a R
- 55. The Embarrassment of Rich's 5.9+
- 637. Lonesome Bolt 5.6 R (Really 5.8 X)
- 9. Rollerball 5.9 R
-
scariest is necessary, but not a sufficient condition for crappiest top list.
aren't there some qualities that define crappiest?
bad bolts
loose rock
moss covered
can't hear a belayer
huh, nevermind, scary seems to be defining characteristic afterall.
-
what if
is up there for me as a pretty crappy route. It is a free route that does not go free, has plenty of crappy rock and moss, the anchors suck, not a great line, is usually wet.
-
Whatever the one and only Conny Sewer has to say on the matter. The question blokes, is which are the shitiest along with being scary?
- 413. Needful 5.8 R (We joke about "kitty litter." On this one it's true. Total crap rock and total crap gear. For most of a rope length. I estimate that, while leading this, I knocked off a cumulative total of at least 100 pounds of rock. Did this with Robert Behrens.)
We may have a winner.