MudNCrud Forums
Climbing and ... Climbing => Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles => Topic started by: clink on February 03, 2015, 12:03:05 PM
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Has Son of Dawn gone free? Is Rock Around the Clock possible free? Los Banditos or Bills Bad Bolts? Might be that there is a route no one has tried.
Now that Barry has moved out of the area, is anyone attempting freeing aid lines?
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Whatever happened to The Great Spectacular?
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I've been poking around....
The problem with some of this climbs is the rock quality. On SOD the crux its a little broken and is probably going to break again. As it was last time I took a look at it I was two finger micro-crimping where a hold once was and then dynoing to a pretty good pinch cobble that is loose and will probably break anyways. I also would like to update the 1/4" bolt protecting that move.
Similar problems on all the other bolt ladders. Having just done Rock Around the Clock I think that's a big maybe given how much choss there is. There is basically a lot of junk thats going to break or has broken on all these bolt ladders and who knows what will become of them. Hopefully a new hold will appear where others have fallen out.
I've yet to get to the Great Spectacular. I've really wanted to be able to give that a good onsight attempt and I've bailed out of going up there solo to take a look at it. So maybe there will be a cold snap when the advisories are over and that can be done with. I've heard it looks good.
Also the short sections of aid followed by very moderate climbing makes those routes kinda lack luster. They climb kind of weird. In example the second crux pitch on Machete Direct you do one 5.12b move that's pretty bouldery and then you basically climb 5.6 bushwhacky choss to the anchors. Talk about contrast. If they were more sustained I think they would get more attention.
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they could go free were a hold or 2 a-fixed to the crumbly section...
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I have to work on finishing my sentences.
It was a bid deal to get on the Regular Route, Mechanic's Delight and Machete Direct for us back in the day. The FFA of an established aid line at Pinns is pretty much a top shelf accomplishment. I get that more than a few holds may break , adversely affecting the difficulty is a deterrent to making an effort on some those routes.
Zippity Do Da lost a couple nice holds I heard. This really was a disappointment to those that did the FA. It completely shut me down and was likely the hardest free route I ever pretended trying to climb.
Adam had brought up for discussion a key hold on Ranger Bolts is not Long for this world.
I'm sharing the computer with Carrie who has just started Cabrillo, so that's it for forums tonight. Good luck on your efforts kyqueener, keep us posted.
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We should glue the broken holds back.....preserve the routes as they were on the FFA.
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I was talking to Gavin about Zippity Do Da just the other day and he mentioned there may have been some damage. It seems to me that some of the harder routes are now much harder. I've yet to climb Zippity but I'll take Gavin's and your word that its seen some changes. Hopefully there is just enough to still make it climbable. I've also noticed that The Vigilante has changed during my years at Pinnacles. Is definitely seems like the bottom sequence keeps getting harder and in my opinion is pretty techy low end 5.12 and the route as a whole seems like a step up from Trial. Gorillas in the Moss is one route that has me befuddled. I spent a good chunk of an afternoon on it and couldn't seem to find a sequence through the first 10-15 feet and up higher near the end of the hard climbing it looked like some holds had broken. I wonder if the bottom section has had any changes since its establishment. It's typically uncommon for me to leave a route without at least finding a sequence that I think is climbable, especially one of that grade.
I'm on the move to finish up all the 5.12 routes as part of my goal to climb all the routes graded 5.12 or harder, so I'll have to chew through those three questionable routes to get there. After that stuff is completed to attention will turn to either new routes or free those hideous old bolt ladders.
Aslo F4, Would you do that for me? I can send you a list but it might be difficult to find the OG holds from the FFA! You should also reinforce the suspect hold on Ranger Bolts. That would be a disaster to lose. That is probably the best route we have.
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either new routes or free those hideous old bolt ladders
Stoke is high
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The golf ball broke off Zippity Do Da, my understanding or at least what someone told me is, Sharma has done it since that hold broke off.
A hold has broken on the start of Gorillas but it has since gone free. I can stick the move but cannot move out of it since I am too stretched out. Takes more core than what I have.
Have you lead, Yo Mama? I can get the upper part but not the bottom. Small holds and long reaches.
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The golf ball broke off Zippity Do Da, my understanding or at least what someone told me is, Sharma has done it since that hold broke off.
A hold has broken on the start of Gorillas but it has since gone free. I can stick the move but cannot move out of it since I am too stretched out. Takes more core than what I have.
Have you lead, Yo Mama? I can get the upper part but not the bottom. Small holds and long reaches.
The answer for anything with a questionable ascent in California is that Sharma has probably done it. HA!
Now that you describe that move of Gorillas it jogs my memory a bit and I remember something similar when I tried it last.
I've never really figured out Yo Mama... I'm not exactly sure what the intended start is, I obviously haven't looked at it very hard. I typically forget its existence but it does look pretty good. I also have a bit of fear of that route and Hot Lava Lucy. I was doing HLC a lot as a warm up or cool down route and randomly I came off in a weird way while moving off a sidepull with a deep back step and struck the starting block for Cantaloupe Death just barely missing hitting my head. The correct beta there is to sorta stem and not backstep. I did lower off and re-climb it right then but since then those haven't really be on my radar.
Out of everything left on my list I'm most excited about Yo Mama. (Pun!)
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Yo Mama is weird. :)
It can be done as a TR top half only or as a lead starting low off the boulder. I think if you do it as a lead a spotter is a good idea. As you know it is always good to have someone watching when you are doing Yo Mama, just on case you fall off.
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Yo Mama is weird. :)
As you know it is always good to have someone watching when you are doing Yo Mama, just in case you fall off.
Watch what you say about my Mama!
Just so you know - I ain't plannin' on doin' yo mama or anyone else's!
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Aslo F4, Would you do that for me? I can send you a list but it might be difficult to find the OG holds from the FFA! You should also reinforce the suspect hold on Ranger Bolts. That would be a disaster to lose. That is probably the best route we have.
No problem. We can chip a doner rock to the original hold configuration. That or have a synthetic one made.
Verdict has gotten harder to. I used to cruz that thing. Now, nope shut down. Mike A has the flake in his yard that broke.
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Wedge, regular route? Holmgren and I wasted quite a bit of time on that choss pile.
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I think the Wedge might go by the right person. I futzed around on it a bit but those bolts are scary.
I think Triangle Skirt could go free.
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Triangle Skirt for sure.
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I think the Wedge might go by the right person. I futzed around on it a bit but those bolts are scary.
The not in their right mind, right kind of person? What are you saying?
Futz
Word Origin
verb (used without object)
1.
to pass time in idleness (usually followed by around).
noun
2.
a fool; simpleton.
Verb phrases
3.
futz (around) with, to handle or deal with, especially idly, reluctantly, or as a time-consuming task:
I spent all day futzing with those file folders.
Origin Expand
1930-19351930-35, Americanism; apparently a euphemism for fuck; perhaps blend of this word and putz
I admit to googling futzed and then triangle skirt. More details and stories requested of a certain Mr. Mud.
Are these two climbs worthy rebolt projects?
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The answer for anything with a questionable ascent in California is that Sharma has probably done it. HA!
New topic; Free climbs that might have become aid climbs. Unless you are Sharma.
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New topic; Free climbs that might have become aid climbs. Unless you are Sharma.
Son of Dawn wall first pitch.
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Son of Dawn wall first pitch.
First pitch is still 5.11, yay!
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Is chopping on rappel considered aid?
Charles
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Is chopping on rappel considered aid?
Charles
If it's not considered aid its obviously against ethics of ground up.
I'm pretty sure if you're gonna chop a route you'll have to stick to the local ethics and go ground up.
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Not at all. Just do a good job.
But chopping is unacceptable. Pull and patch is the way to remove offensive hardware.
Wedge bolts are the hardest to pull. But often they are overdrilled on the hole so that one can hammer them in the hole and patch over. Try that first. If it doesn't work there are other ways to avoid scarring the rock.
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Can you stick clip though? I think I agree with Ky, gotta go ground up... gotta have style even when chopping...
Charles
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Can you stick clip though? I think I agree with Ky, gotta go ground up... gotta have style even when chopping...
Charles
Lack of style is probably what led the chopping in the first place. A chopper should chop in perfect style. They should also own up to the task.
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Charles
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Not at all. Just do a good job.
But chopping is unacceptable. Pull and patch is the way to remove offensive hardware.
Wedge bolts are the hardest to pull. But often they are overdrilled on the hole so that one can hammer them in the hole and patch over. Try that first. If it doesn't work there are other ways to avoid scarring the rock.
So does this mean I can remove hardware I find offensive if I do a good job? And go ground up of course.
I can think of a few routes that I find offensive.
I'm sure Charles could find about four he finds offensive.
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Is there an oversight board I can talk to about offense? Or is it up to me in the same way that I can put up a new route without really consulting anyone?
Charles
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The slope is slippery
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Then place a bolt! Or three, you know you can't be too careful these days, safety first, style third.
Charles
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Then place a bolt! Or three, you know you can't be too careful these days, safety first, style third.
Charles
Whoah Whoah Whoah... that goes against everything I was ever taught.
Style has always been rule number one.
If you look good, you feel good, you climb good. You climb good you climb safe.
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Getting a new Arc'Teryx jacket today... maybe that will help. At least then I can climb routes and won't be motivated to chop ones I can't climb...
Charles
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If a route can go in, it can be removed. There is no 'entitlement' beyond that which we all have, e.g. what Mucci mentioned.
The going in part requires some ethical approach since it involves installing the hardware.
The removal is mere restoration. That's why it is important to do a good job.
Doing it ground up is just style in method, not ethics in method. An ethical result is what one would be after in that case. Again, the goal of restoration being paramount.
Further, to say that someone that can't climb 5.13 can't pull and patch offensive 5.13 routes would be an appeal to elitism that has no grounding in the reason for the removal. Presumably the removal corrects an offense. Having a prerequisite of a certain climbing ability means that only certain climbing abilities are permitted to put up routes.
Under egalitarian and democratic notions, that would be technically called horseshit.
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Woo hoo! Semantics! Oh, I'll readily admit to elitism, nothing personal... it's just intuitive. If I can climb runnout 5.10 can I pull and patch over-bolted 5.5 that I find offensive? Ground up of course and with the full blessings of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude.
As a side note, I was up welding till 3am and the gym is slow right now, so thanks everyone for the amusement!
Charles
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Semantics is the study of meaning. what does it mean to do X action and it's affect on others? That's ethics. Style is when it doesn't affect others (e.g. redpoint off of yo yo and preplaced gear, versus leading e.g. cracks placing gear as one goes).
Removal is about ethics too. So yes, it is reasonable in principle to pull and patch any perceived over bolted route one wants (all other things being equal). One doesn't need a free climbing ability to do it since it is about ethics and not about measuring the length of our Johnsons.
Appealing to elite abilities is about excluding some from participating in a certain activity. E.g. in racing you don't get to race the champ, if you can't make it in the qualifying rounds.
Makes sense in a climbing comp. Not outside.
Outside, if only elite climbers put in routes where they felt they need it, everything under a certain grade would never need protection and would never get climbed. Noobies may never get the chance to progress through the grades. Leading is an exercise in terror management. And with fewer climbers, there are fewer of us to write our senators when they finally pull the plug on all climbing because no one understands it and mere perception becomes the rule. It's the same reason I like tourons. They vote. They keep parks open. Doesn't mean I like everything tourons do.
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There are a couple of what I consider over bolted routes that offend me. Some of them are considered classic and get stars in the guidebook. Problem with over bolted is it is quite subjective.
Personally I am still stuck at futzing with the Triangle skirt and trying to decide if I am a fool or a simpleton. Perhaps since I have to ask myself that question it is both.
Clink to answer you question, perhaps. Triangle Skirt probably would not hurt to freshin up the bolting there.
Wedge, half the appeal of leading that is doing A3 leading on an A1 route. It would be a good place to do a first Aid lead if rebolted. Perhaps leave one or two original bolts for flavor.
If we do both the Wedge and Triangle Skirt does everyone smile?
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If we do both the Wedge and Triangle Skirt does everyone smile?
well, maybe smirk ;)
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This is hilarious. Was it you who chopped the back-side of Monolith?
Charles
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It was not me and have a fair bit of confidence it was not the guys on the Flumes wall since their not well you know. They futz.
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This is hilarious. Was it you who chopped the back-side of Monolith?
Charles
I don't even think the back side of the Monolith had any TD routes on it. It was just an internet troll session.
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It was not me and have a fair bit of confidence it was not the guys on the Flumes wall since their not well you know. They futz.
No one knows who AROCA is.
I did Futz one day at Flumes. Forgot the fricking harness. gah
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Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia
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I don't care that those Monolith routes got the chop I just think it's lame no one is owning up to it.
Freaking rap choppers...
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Ground-up... If I ever chop, it's gonna be ground up...
Charles
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Is chopping on rappel considered aid?
Ground-up... If I ever chop, it's gonna be ground up..
Charles, good to see you yesterday, quite the welding project you are undertaking.
I found this, it may be confusing. Definitely needs to be theme music for ground up rapchopping. The right wardrobe selections and chopping equipment financed from burglaries a new movement could be born.