MudNCrud Forums

Climbing and ... Climbing => Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles => Topic started by: russ p on January 25, 2022, 04:48:24 PM

Title: Machete death triangle...
Post by: russ p on January 25, 2022, 04:48:24 PM
My good friend had his birthday yesterday and to celebrate we had a nice mellow day in the sun doing the Bullseye/Derringer/Old Original link up.  A beautiful day and a lot fun!

On the decent we came across several bright yellow slings tied through the rings with the American Death triangle.  Weird and WTF??  We didn't have a knife but untied and removed the ones we were able to get the knot undone.

Did someone think they were doing a community service?  As far as I know the ADT is still considered an unsafe form of rigging, am I right on this??

Im trying to post a photo for dramatic effect but not too successful.  We did text Brad a pic so he saw it.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: Brad Young on January 25, 2022, 04:56:50 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843371873_aab79bf9b6_b.jpg)


Yes, WTF barely begins to describe this. Since my mom would want me to say something nice, how about this: at least they got themselves down without calling for a rescue?
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: Brad Young on January 25, 2022, 04:58:00 PM
Russ, next time you want to post photos, text me or call. I'll walk you through the process (it is not that hard IF you are used to it).

Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: squiddo on January 25, 2022, 05:02:58 PM
I blame F4. His brand high Vis too!

Pretty lame ADT placement I  agree. That said, while I
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 25, 2022, 06:04:12 PM
^^^

squiddo does not realize contractions are strictly verboten.

I will be glad to pose multiple hypotheses for this mystery.
The gyms teach anchoring classes and emphasize equalization. So does the AMGA.
Anchoring books stress equalization.
The climbers were engineers and did not like the angle of the dangle.
Someone was in the mood to use some webbing they have been carrying for ages.
They needed practice tying water knots.
They wanted to spruce up the gully with some color.
They wanted to increase the visibilty of the anchor - the small red pieces of webbing evidently were not bright enough.

They wanted to test the death triangle to see if it is a hoax (they like conspiracy theories).

Now the real question is how much webbing was on the oak tree in the meadow?

Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 25, 2022, 06:07:21 PM
Totally bommer!!
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: russ p on January 25, 2022, 07:32:49 PM
Brad, thanks for the offer I will surely take you up on that.  The problem was I did not know how to shrink the size so it would post.  John, in answer to your question about at the oak tree, there were several wraps of the same yellow webbing at the base of the tree.  We did leave that in place. 
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: clink on January 25, 2022, 08:09:21 PM

 I do remember watching the hangers flex towards each other on Lena's Lieback.l a few decades ago.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: squiddo on January 25, 2022, 09:31:36 PM
I do remember watching the hangers flex towards each other on Lena's Lieback.l a few decades ago.

Ha nice one, such a great route. Flex away!
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 26, 2022, 08:35:02 AM
John, in answer to your question about at the oak tree, there were several wraps of the same yellow webbing at the base of the tree.  We did leave that in place.

We always strip anything on that tree to discourage that descent.

Maybe they were tying a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree.

Too bad they didn't use any rap rings for your booty stash.

I always carry some dark webbing, aluminum rings, screwlinks, a wrench and a knife  :yesnod: :thumbup: :ihih:

.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 26, 2022, 09:29:00 AM
Hate that decent

I prefer to go over the other side via Rock Around the Clock and WestFace.
You end up by Corona. But for full disclosure I am very familiar with the West Face routes and have done such shenanigans a few times.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 26, 2022, 04:11:51 PM
^^^

...

    ...

          ...


                 New challenge - finish all of F4s posts...
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 26, 2022, 05:06:10 PM
Jeezus!!

I swear!
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: mynameismud on January 26, 2022, 08:36:09 PM
Clint would have bootied that webbing.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: russ p on January 26, 2022, 08:36:38 PM
I usually carry a knife, but in a classic Murphy"s law moment the time it would have been useful I did not have it.  We debated pulling the webbing from the tree but were unsure if that would be a dickish move.  Guess it would not have been, it seems that rapping from that tree would be time consuming and a pain (and bad for the tree).  I too dislike that decent, it's kind of like putting your vacation on a credit card, the fun part comes first but the payback comes later.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: Brad Young on January 26, 2022, 09:02:00 PM

Clint would have bootied that webbing.


And he'd still be using it ten years from now  ;)
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 26, 2022, 09:02:22 PM
The last time I did it my wife got Poison Oak.
I gave it to her from an encounter with a PO branch.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: squiddo on January 26, 2022, 09:24:13 PM
I usually carry a knife, but in a classic Murphy"s law moment the time it would have been useful I did not have it.  We debated pulling the webbing from the tree but were unsure if that would be a dickish move.  Guess it would not have been, it seems that rapping from that tree would be time consuming and a pain (and bad for the tree).  I too dislike that decent, it's kind of like putting your vacation on a credit card, the fun part comes first but the payback comes later.

 ;D
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 27, 2022, 08:11:32 AM
I usually carry a knife

I'll remember that.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: burnsbabe on January 27, 2022, 10:02:06 AM
While it's not a good anchor for several reasons, the ADT isn't as magically terrible as it's been laid out to be. It's entirely possible to descend off it and not have a problem. If you're interested strictly in issues of the forces applied to the anchor bolts and nothing else (like how one chop and this whole thing just fails) How Not 2 Highline did some force tests on the ADT on Youtube recently.

Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: NOAL on January 27, 2022, 10:03:50 AM
Quote
I usually carry a knife 

I am from Alabama.  I always carry a knife. Remember that.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 27, 2022, 10:18:18 AM
While it's not a good anchor for several reasons, the ADT isn't as magically terrible as it's been laid out to be.

The bad thing I see about the triangle is no redundancy. If the webbing breaks, you are gone.
If I leave webbing on an anchor I tie a piece to each bolt.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: mynameismud on January 27, 2022, 10:52:18 AM
Yeah, the thing with the triangle isn't so much the forces but that it is a single point of failure.  I am sure anyone who has climbed for a while has rapped off of a single piece or sketchy stuff more than once.  But, when you have a two bolt anchor why setup a rap with a single point of failure.  Unless of course someone left two really good pieces of webbing and you want to bootie one and rap off of the other. 
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: squiddo on January 27, 2022, 10:57:03 AM
While it's not a good anchor for several reasons, the ADT isn't as magically terrible as it's been laid out to be. It's entirely possible to descend off it and not have a problem. If you're interested strictly in issues of the forces applied to the anchor bolts and nothing else (like how one chop and this whole thing just fails) How Not 2 Highline did some force tests on the ADT on Youtube recently.



Exactly. Not ideal NOT best practice but strong
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: mynameismud on January 27, 2022, 11:11:24 AM
I am from Alabama.  I always carry a knife. Remember that.

lol, good to know...
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: russ p on January 27, 2022, 11:16:39 AM
The website Alpine Savvy (which I really like) has a posting entitled
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: mynameismud on January 27, 2022, 12:04:53 PM
Exactly. Not ideal NOT best practice but strong

Depending on who left the webbing
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: burnsbabe on January 27, 2022, 01:15:39 PM
Yeah, the thing with the triangle isn't so much the forces but that it is a single point of failure.  I am sure anyone who has climbed for a while has rapped off of a single piece or sketchy stuff more than once.  But, when you have a two bolt anchor why setup a rap with a single point of failure.

Yeah. This is really it. I just see a lot of arguments about the ADT boiling down to force on the anchor bolts for some reason instead of the single point of failure.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 27, 2022, 04:07:14 PM
The website Alpine Savvy (which I really like) has a posting entitled

Apostrophailure
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 27, 2022, 04:54:41 PM
Yeah Mr Mud, who left the webbing is key.
Were it Clint, it would be 10-15yr old.
Still strong.

You used to be more spendy and leave carabiners.
Which I always returned.

I will ask Larry about buying a spool of bright pink webbing for bailing.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: Brad Young on January 27, 2022, 05:28:49 PM

I will ask Larry about buying a spool of bright pink webbing for bailing.


Do you think that one spool will last long enough? Better order two!
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 27, 2022, 05:38:11 PM
I like your thinking Brad!

Enough for Sonora Pass
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: mungeclimber on January 27, 2022, 07:17:47 PM
Lime squeeze webbing good.

Not going through rings bad.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: NOAL on January 27, 2022, 07:25:05 PM
Quote
    Unless of course someone left two really good pieces of webbing and you want to bootie one and rap off of the other 

Reminds of one time when I climbed West Pillar route on Eichorn Pinnacle. I led all the pitches. When we got to the top the guy following hands me a big ball of webbing, quicklinks, rap rings etc and says "I cleaned all of these"  He had removed all of the rap stations.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: clink on January 27, 2022, 07:40:23 PM
Quote
Reminds of one time when I climbed West Pillar route on Eichorn Pinnacle. I led all the pitches. When we got to the top the guy following hands me a big ball of webbing, quicklinks, rap rings etc and says "I cleaned all of these"  He had removed all of the rap stations.

 That is funny, though maybe not at the time. Did he bring some skyhooks for getting down?
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: NOAL on January 27, 2022, 11:41:06 PM
I believe there are bolts on top which you can get to doing the one pitch easy route.

He took all the stuff people use to bail on the five pitch route.



Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: waldo on January 28, 2022, 07:35:01 PM
Death triangle? Sounds like time travelers to me, maybe some of those boys with a Chuck Richards guide stepped through a dimensional portal. We do have some strange portals around here.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: kurt on January 31, 2022, 12:07:10 PM
We observed something similar midway between the top of Bill's Bad Bolts Direct and the summit tree on 1/29/22.  We didn't go higher to check it out but that color webbing was clearly visible hanging on something.  Was that the same anchor mentioned in the original post?
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on January 31, 2022, 12:41:18 PM
We observed something similar midway between the top of Bill's Bad Bolts Direct and the summit tree on 1/29/22.  We didn't go higher to check it out but that color webbing was clearly visible hanging on something.  Was that the same anchor mentioned in the original post?

Not the same anchor. The original one is one of several rappel anchors in the gully used for the Machete descent. http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=1951.80

Sounds like someone is climbing Machete routes and either bailing or rappelling down pitches that are too long for a single rope rappel.
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: F4? on January 31, 2022, 01:07:30 PM
Is this a job for Magnum PO?
Title: Re: Machete death triangle...
Post by: JC w KC redux on February 01, 2022, 09:14:20 AM
Is this a job for Magnum PO?

Could be if I can ever get him away from his day job!