MudNCrud Forums
Climbing and ... Climbing => Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles => Topic started by: mynameismud on June 09, 2007, 08:08:06 PM
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Sent. Left to Right.
Does anyone know of anyone else that has lead this?
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This route is unique! ;D
Such exposure, yet so close to the ground.
Maybe send Larry @ Mtn Tools an e-mail. I recall Brad mentioning something.
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Call Larry, but I don't remember anything about anyone ever having freed it. Not the high traverse. I got Mr Mud's email as we were editing last night, so we put it in. Maybe the fastest FFA to make it into a guidebook ever?
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Was this the last great problem at the Pinnacles?? Oh, wait Premeditated is.
Okay, was this the 2nd to last great problem?
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Nice job!
Hey does anyone know if anyone has ever freed Bridwell Bolts? I've eyed it over the years, but never tried it.
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It has not gone. I tried it quite a few years ago, gave up part way bolts sucked. I tried the bottom part on tr. I think one or two others tried. It was loose. You are quite strong and can pull down on tiny holds. That would be an awesome tick if you pulled it off.
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I would try it with you for a day if you want karl.
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Sounds great.
I'd love to give a try early in the morning when the weather drops about 25-30 degrees.
Stom,
It looked pretty loose from where I was looking. Too bad. If someone were to pick up the FFA or first lead (if it ever got toproped clean), it may not be repeatable . . . or at least repeatable at the same grade, given the assumption of lost holds.
Karl
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Here is another that I tried a couple of times that I think may be attainable by the right person. Son of Dawn Wall. I think that the bolt ladder could possibly go. I tried this on TR and was able to link a few moves, here and there. At the time I thought it near impossible to be able to let go and clip in a few places. Would be cool if someone was able to free the whole route.
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Out of curiousity what is the ethics of freeing an aid route.
Say we top rope it a few times and decide it will probably go on lead.
1. Can we break off the loose rocks that are going to kill our belayer?
2. If there is a section where a lead fall would kill you can you add a bolt? (I'm assuming this isn't the case on this route though, and generally isn't the case on anything easier then A4)
3. Can you replace bolts that will hold body weight but wouldn't take repeated leader falls, ie at the crux?
Anything I else I would want to ask?
Karl I'm sort of injured right now, hopefully be ready by next weekend just send me a pm or something when you want to give it a try.
Shane
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Shane,
Are you crazy? :o
I wouldn't try that route until the fall. It gets full sun all day.
As for ethics... I don't think people would like you to pull stuff off intentionally.
As for bolts, they don't get replaced since they are part of what makes the aid fun. The only ones that are acceptable are anchors (e.g. on a free route on El Cap at the belays). People do "cleanup" the fixed junk, which is essentially pitons, heads, and it gets a little shady when it comes to "fixed" cams and nuts.
As for Bridwell... Brad cleaned up a lot of the bolts and it should be good to go for free climbing.
If I tried it, I'd just like to start from the ground and see what happens. Just wear a helmet and stand aside for the belay.
Who knows, if my carpal tunnel surgery would heal and I can get into shape, I could try to onsight it. Or I could get the flash after you do. That is this fall or winter.
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The Pins seem to have a bit of a unique history. The less tampering the better. Technically if you get it clean on TR you cannot claim the first lead but that has happened it is just considered poor form. Ground up is the way to go. Most of the loose stuff comes off when you pull on it hard. Freeing an aid line with really bad bolts is the best form possible, that said some people have replaced the real sketch bolts to make freeing stuff a bit more doable. A couple of bolts have been replaced on the Son of Dawn Wall bolt ladder. If you go for that you may want to replace one or more additional bolts.
Out of curiousity what is the ethics of freeing an aid route.
Say we top rope it a few times and decide it will probably go on lead.
1. Can we break off the loose rocks that are going to kill our belayer?
2. If there is a section where a lead fall would kill you can you add a bolt? (I'm assuming this isn't the case on this route though, and generally isn't the case on anything easier then A4)
3. Can you replace bolts that will hold body weight but wouldn't take repeated leader falls, ie at the crux?
Anything I else I would want to ask?
Karl I'm sort of injured right now, hopefully be ready by next weekend just send me a pm or something when you want to give it a try.
Shane
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personally, i think if it is a bolt, replace it to free it. I disagree with Mr Mud. a hole is a hole.
If the hole is rivet though, as part of the original aid line, then either a variant away from an arm's reach of the aid line to make it go free can legitimize an additional bolt. or, you lead past the rivet to the next good bolt.
basically Wall style ethic to shorter aid routes...
sometimes pin placements blow out and a new bolt to replace it can be justified as well.
use good judgment and you'll do fine. (Brad already did replace some of the bolts aways back)
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"The Pins seem to have a bit of a unique history. The less tampering the better. Technically if you get it clean on TR you cannot claim the first lead but that has happened it is just considered poor form. Ground up is the way to go. Most of the loose stuff comes off when you pull on it hard. Freeing an aid line with really bad bolts is the best form possible, that said some people have replaced the real sketch bolts to make freeing stuff a bit more doable. A couple of bolts have been replaced on the Son of Dawn Wall bolt ladder. If you go for that you may want to replace one or more additional bolts."
What about instead of a hanger one was to put a jug? A chip?
The second headwall on the Son of Dawn wall is pretty shitty rock, good luck. Maybe one could get lucky and pull a hold that would create a bigger hold....
I second Munge, a hold is a hole. Fill it with a proper hole. Add too many and Mr Mud might come after you. Just tell him he has to free the route before he can remove any bolts. Good logic?
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So back to the original thread....the arch. It needs a little more cleaning.
Brad, will you give it a star?
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The hotter it is the better I climb :) I've climbed there when it was 110 at 9am, and it was no different then any other day except I drank 6 liters of water. (actually probably better because when its cold I usually overgrip) My hands don't sweat though.
I guess what I meant by knocking off loose stuff I mean more by hand then the crowbar method used at goldwall.
For bolts my question is for stuff like the two bolts at the bottom of cantalope death, there is no way I would ever consider a fall on them. I might give it a try on tr next time I'm there, but I have lots of stuff I want to get on there if I ever convince someone its worth going there and watching me fall alot so I can wait until its a little cooler.
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I am interested and have a few projects of my own. The next couple of months are a bit busy for me but I will let you know the next time I have a day free for the Pins. Those bolts on Cantaloupe Direct will not hold a fall. When I lead that I did it by pre-clipping the first bolt on Cantaloupe a spot is good also since you swing into the rock behind if you come off to low.
The hotter it is the better I climb :) I've climbed there when it was 110 at 9am, and it was no different then any other day except I drank 6 liters of water. (actually probably better because when its cold I usually overgrip) My hands don't sweat though.
I guess what I meant by knocking off loose stuff I mean more by hand then the crowbar method used at goldwall.
For bolts my question is for stuff like the two bolts at the bottom of cantalope death, there is no way I would ever consider a fall on them. I might give it a try on tr next time I'm there, but I have lots of stuff I want to get on there if I ever convince someone its worth going there and watching me fall alot so I can wait until its a little cooler.
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why not just replace those nasty ass bolts?
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The actual line for the direct is off to the right, so you cannot clip the bolts from where the current line goes up. It is most likely possible to do a different start over by the old bolts. It is definitely possible to start from the left and go up and right to the start of Cantaloupe Death.
Besides that, it is just really good form to climb on shite bolts.
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As long as you don't fall, which would then cause your ankle, (or worse) to be in very bad form for a long time... :o
I guess that's the appeal.
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so are the bolts useless, if preclipped? I would figure it is better than the first bolt on CD as the pre-clip.
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If you are climbing the Direct the aid bolts are useless and the 1st bolt on CD is the only way to go. Clipping the aid bolts will increase your swing into the rocks behind you.
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I think they are just there to aid up and probably the original intent was to follow the ramp left towards feed the beast. They are totally useless and I'm not sure I would trust body weight on them, but they sure are nice for hanging a rack on. Whenever I do the direct I pre clip the first bolt and then have someone spot me from behind so I don't smash the wall.
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If you are climbing the Direct the aid bolts are useless and the 1st bolt on CD is the only way to go. Clipping the aid bolts will increase your swing into the rocks behind you.
how will it increase the swing? They are lower than CD first bolt? (assume you are not clipping the first bolt on CD until you've lead up to it)
does it pull you to the left too much, and closer to the trail?
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I think they are just there to aid up and probably the original intent was to follow the ramp left towards feed the beast. They are totally useless and I'm not sure I would trust body weight on them, but they sure are nice for hanging a rack on. Whenever I do the direct I pre clip the first bolt and then have someone spot me from behind so I don't smash the wall.
Burner, yeah, i suspect that corner was some prior route. aid
I've TR'd it at least once (seem to recall it being 5.10ish) Once, from just right of FTB, and once from CD start. The left side start by FTB is actually a really good line. Though a bit mossy in the upper left facing corner.
Adding bolts to make it a lead might be a bit of a squeeze tho.
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Yes the bolts are further to the left and lower, so the swing is increased.
how will it increase the swing? They are lower than CD first bolt? (assume you are not clipping the first bolt on CD until you've lead up to it)
does it pull you to the left too much, and closer to the trail?
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The first time I lead CD, I used those two bolts.
I intended to do the 5.10 version, but misunderstood the start. Someone told me to lean across to clip the bolt and climb. I leaned in from the trail, clipped, and started in the middle of the 5.12 version. I onsighted this version out of fear. It wasn't until several years later that I learned that the lean across was from the boulder above.
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"The first time I lead CD, I used those two bolts.
I intended to do the 5.10 version, but misunderstood the start. Someone told me to lean across to clip the bolt and climb. I leaned in from the trail, clipped, and started in the middle of the 5.12 version. I onsighted this version out of fear. It wasn't until several years later that I learned that the lean across was from the boulder above."
Priceless. Must have felt hard for only 10C??
I say remove the old bolts and "move them" properly pro the direct start. Would they help much compared to a good spot?
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Priceless. Must have felt hard for only 10C??
I say remove the old bolts and "move them" properly pro the direct start. Would they help much compared to a good spot?
I was a little surprised, but just figured it was stiff for the grade.
As for the bolts . . . I wouldn't move them. The .12 version hardly ever gets climbed and it makes the most sense to just use the bolt from the boulder. You only have to watch the swing for the first couple of moves.
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What is the Aid/Free ratings of the arch....Does the bombay chimney in the middle protect well (on aid or free) Finally Where does one start the route, directly up to the lone bolt then right or does it start further left. Looks like an adventure on aid!
Mucci
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It's all free. you can start at the left and work right. The bombay in the middle is not that bad and you get to rest.
The best part was the fact that you're like 10ft off the deck. If you get sketched, put a piece in to pro the move.
While there, brush the footholds a bit.
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Most people go left to right. If you free it the rating is 10+, 11- something like that. On Aid it is probably A1 or A2.
It has also been climbed right to left which is easier since you down climb the crux. The chimney is not bad and can be protected with large to medium gear.
Basically whatever works for you. Have fun. It is better than it looks. Not a bad way to spend a rainy day.