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41

Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:54:27 PM »

And mudworm, I called you a heretic above (which I can do because I know you have a good sense of humor). I just thought of a return to your original comment which I will put down here and then listen to you gasp from 140 miles away.

Do you remember my older daughter Katie? You know, the one you met and hung out with several times and in particular, helped with math problems in the car driving to the east side of the Sierra?





She's about to turn 30.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:53:17 PM »

It sounds like it really wouldn't be a sandbag to call the variation of pitch three 5.8 and that's what I'm leaning toward. Rate the whole/original route 5.8 (with its third pitch at 5.7 R) and the third pitch variation also 5.8.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:48:17 PM »

Also, I typed my original question between tasks at work and did not mean to omit you Chris. Please feel free to chime in, although the heretic did take the time to quote you and so in a sense your opinions were stated again.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:46:18 PM »

...would you consider erasing the 5.7 variation on P3?

You only typed these words so that you could pause at work and hear me gasp from 140 miles away.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by ryn on April 11, 2025, 03:02:16 PM »

Would you consider erasing the 5.7 variation on P3? I really don't see anyone who has climbed up from P1 in their right mind would choose to go that way, especially now with a bomber bolt above.

With the bolt being where it is, and the climbing in the same difficulty as P1, I agree that most climbers will take the direct line past the bolt rather than left into the runout. Don't think the 5.7R option should be erased, lowering the grade of the "10a" would inform the 5.8/5.9 leaders the safer path is within their abilities, and they can make their own choices about which line to pursue.  I got to lead that pitch then inspect the moves again on a fixed line after placing new bolts. No way its harder than 5.9, even venturing a bit left or right from what I thought was the obvious line still felt similar difficulty as P1. And I only followed P1, so its possibly a tad easier.

...trying to be scrupulously accurate but slightly on the conservative side, 5.8 or 5.9?

5.8c

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by NOAL on April 11, 2025, 02:10:53 PM »

I onsighted Burtons Below (5.9) in my approach shoes and felt solid

I have climbed this with a sprained ankle as it started to rain and was slightly damp. I have also led it at least a half dozen times.

 I know a certain someone advocated hard to have this bumped up to 5.9 but it's 5.8.

I chuckle at myself for saying this because I said it as if there are more than 6 people who cared

This made me chuckle too.

Would you consider erasing the 5.7 variation on P3?

Agreed.  There are many things about this route that are kind of mysterious.  Would love to hear from Waldo what the story is.  Did they climb that way first and then come back another day and climbed up the 10a version.  The 5.7 R route would make sense if you were short on time and trying to get to the summit. 

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by mudworm on April 11, 2025, 01:57:04 PM »

I'll cast my vote. If I'm outvoted, so be it. I'm enjoying discussions like this.

5.9 for P1. If you look at the MP votes -- I did a grade vote to tick match -- the majority of the 5.8 graders there are confirmed follow for P1. This is not to downplay other people's follow experience or their opinion; it just aligns with my personal philosophy. I use KAYA app extensively to track my 5.11+ and above climbing at the Movement gyms. I never downgrade a leadable climb even if I danced up it on TR because I believe to most people, whether some admit to it or not, there is a difference in their experience between follow/TR and lead. (I would also never rate a climb unless I've climbed it successfully, which does put me in the minority.) There is a vote on MP from Chris. I am confident to say that his grade vote was more about adding PG; less about grade itself. Don't worry. I'm sure he'll correct me if I was wrong. I did not find the route PG, esp. if people go for it with a 5.9 climb in expectation. Another data point: at the end of the same day, I onsighted Burtons Below (5.9) in my approach shoes and felt solid. I would not want to lead P1 in my approach shoes. Well, NOAL rated that route 5.8 on MP. He sure is consistent!

5.9 for P3 (through the bolt). I wanted to say 5.8, but downgrading by two grades might be more than what most people can stomach. I chuckle at myself for saying this because I said it as if there are more than 6 people who cared. Apparently, everyone agreed that it's no harder than P1, so that's that! Would you consider erasing the 5.7 variation on P3? I really don't see anyone who has climbed up from P1 in their right mind would choose to go that way, especially now with a bomber bolt above.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by NOAL on April 11, 2025, 01:07:41 PM »

The variation would be 5.8? (the variation third pitch, going past the bolts.)

 

Yes.  Maybe someone else will chime in but I remember climbing this back in 2011 and thinking "O.K. here comes the 10a part" and getting to anchor and thinking "did I climb around it or something?"  This last time I jugged the pitch.  So I am basing that on what I remember  from almost 15 years ago. Seems like everyone  else is having the same sort of experience.

Here's a quote from mudworm about what Chris thought about pitch three which I think is spot on

Chirs described Mr. Bolt Jangles, our next objective to me, "it's a little harder than the '10a' variation on p3, but easier than p1." I understood exactly what he meant, and later thought it was accurate.

So basically he is saying pitch three is 5.8 and mudworm agrees.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 12:48:11 PM »

And on a related subject, but way off the topic of the original thread, I recently led The Unmentionable and there's no way that it is 5.5. I changed it to 5.6 for the new book.

David and Russ were climbing at Pipsqueak and found Rightfoot significantly harder than Scragglepuss and wouldn't lead it because of the very high first bolt. I'd been wondering about this route for a while and changed Rightfoot from 5.7 to 5.8 R.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 12:41:01 PM »

The variation would be 5.8? (the variation third pitch, going past the bolts.)

That's a big move (two grades). Would you be OK if I changed it to 5.9 instead??

And based on your comments I will leave the "main" route 5.8 (unless anyone else of you who have done it recently feels strongly about not - but I think Noal's comments are pretty convincing).