Stainless vs Non-Stainless bolts

[F4?]

What's the best for anchor replacement at the Pinnacles?



I've heard that non-stainless are fine.



Well?

[karl]

I have heard that as well, but they just don't last as long.  



However, since so many people say they work great, I tried using the regular carbon Rawl that everyone uses.  The head sheared off the bolt before I reached 12 lbs. of force.  12 pounds!



The Fixe double wedge bolts get torqued to 30 lbs./sq.ft. and the Fixe Triplex (like the one's I used on the top of Terranean) get torqued to 44 lbs./sq.ft..  And yes I use a torque wrench.





I think that glue-ins would be the best for Pinnacles.  The glue-in studs that have a nut that can be removed, so you can replace parts.  The problem with epoxy is application.  Done right -- awesome.  Done wrong -- gulp.  Also, people have to stay off the route while the bolts dry.  How do you guarantee that?

[F4?]

Yah Karl,

I like the strength of the glue-in's ,but not the future replacement capability. Maybe I could practice placing a glue-in at home and see how the mixing goes. For anchors they would be nice. Again I am nagged about the fact that people lower through them (chains would help).

My motivation for asking Stainless vs Non-Stainless is I need to buy more bolts for the Eastern Front (very nice place, highly recommend it) and could buy a large quantity with the idea of using some for anchor replacements at the Pinnacles.

Of couse I'd spring for the stainless hangers as well.

[F4?]

Hey Brad,

Will there be mention in the new guidebook about the following:
Leave a bail biner and don't lower through the glue-in bolts
Don't TR through the lowering HW, use your own gear
Mr Mud is a god
No posing

[mynameismud]

Rawls are nice since if they need to be replaced they are just unscrewed and then it is easy to plug the hole.  The do not seem to hold up real well in the Pins if they are in an area where they get loaded and unloaded a lot.  Perhaps the half inch bolts will hold up better.

[karl]

Rawls are nice since if they need to be replaced they are just unscrewed and then it is easy to plug the hole.

The problem is just that.  Often you can't get all of the parts of the Rawl out and the hole is then useless.  The same problem exists with wedge bolts and glue-ins.  At least wedge bolts (if drilled longer than the bolt) can be hammered in and the hole can be filled.  Glue-ins would have to be hacksawed off.

My current favorite is the Fixe triplex bolts.  They are like super strong Rawls, but only made of three pieces and are REMOVABLE and REUSABLE.  Even better, the same 12mm hole can be used for a 10mm glue-in.


About lowering off glue-ins:
That is the problem with the eye-bolt style for anchors.  They are designed for lowering through the eyelet, but that destroys the bolt and you can't reuse the hole to replace the bolt.  That is why (for anchors) I suggest using the glue-in studs so you can replace nuts, hangers, anchors, etc.

[mynameismud]

I will have to check out the Fixe triplex.  Do you know of a place to get them at a good price?  The rawls can usually be removed if unscrewed a bit then tapped back into the hole a bit.  Needle nose plyers to remove the sleeve then Clints trick of a bit of coat hanger with a hook to remove the wedge.  But if it needs replaced the hole is usually shot.  PC Crete works well for plugging holes.

That said I think the Fixe that you mentioned sounds like a better solution.

[F4?]

http://www.fixeusa.com/triplex.htm

Damn, the Triplex are cheaper than the Powers 3/8 3.5 stainless by $2....

[karl]

I used to get them really cheap from fixeusa, but that deal ended.

Now, I just get 'em from mountain gear.  $5.60 for the 75mm size.  They ship free for $50, so you only have to buy like 9 or 10 at a time.  Kind of pricey, but when you look at how beefy they are you'll want nothing else.  I wish they made them longer and bigger.  But you can't fight genetics 


P.S.  You need a 12mm drill and the fixe ones cut faster than any I've seen.

karl

[F4?]

Well, I'm placing an order tomorrow with Fixe. I'll add a few of the Triplex bolts and a couple bits. Fixe is a few cents more, but way cheaper on the Powers Stainless bolts.

Holler if you want to add to the order.

[F4?]

I just bought a box of 50 stainless 3/8 3 1/2 Powers bolts. I've also ordered stainless hangers as well.

I'll gladly donate them to anchor replacement projects at the Pinnacles.

[tomhiggins]

Excuse the ignorance, but are power drills allowed for bolt replacement at the Monument? I assume they are not allowed for new routes, just as a no no in National Parks. Assuming, then, new route creators are using hand drills, what's the fashion these days and where do you get them?

Tom Higgins

[mynameismud]

I personally like the Rock Pecker since no tools are required to replace drill bits.  This mechanism can end up pinching your had so it is best to either where a glove or wrap this part of the drill with tape.  Mountain Tools quite often has good prices on drills.  I am sure other people can recommend other dealers.

You are correct no Power Drills are not allowed at the Pins.  Above when people mention Powers it is in reference to a brand of bolts.

[Brad Young]

Right, Tom, no power (ie mechanized) drills in the Monument, for any purpose. Replacement is done by hand drilling. You know how the rock is, so more often than not, old holes cannot be reused. It is essential to place the new bolt as close as possible to the old, especially in height. And crucial to carefully patch the old hole. Clint should address this issue, since he and Bruce have replaced more than 300 bolts there in the last 4 or so years. They are both very skilled at doing so.

[karl]

I use the rock pecker too.  I have heard others are a little more comfortable, but the quick change system is great and they are pretty inexpensive.