R and X at pinnacles

[mungeclimber]

Brad and I were talking about what the rating should be on this climb...

405.4  Pea Break  5.5 R  This route leads to the top of the highest pinnacle in a group of four pinnacles which together, are called The Rest Stop.  The group is 60 feet above (north of) the High Peaks Trail just beyond the turn-off point for The Unmentionable (It is about halfway from parking to The High Peaks and is frequented by hikers and scramblers).  The tallest pinnacle is on the northeast side of the group.  Climb the short right edge of its southwest side (starting in a corridor between it and the second highest pinnacle in the group).  The rock on this route is very clean and hard.  It is possible to get a so-so 1 ½ inch cam in a horizontal crack halfway up.  There is no summit anchor (downclimb or use a pinnacles rappel).  FA Party:  Unknown.  FA Dates:  Unknown.  Source(s):  Discovery and solo ascents of route by Robert Behrens and self, March 13, 2011.

I went back to the guidebook and re-read the definition of R. There are other climbs that are essentially solos that get an X.

Brad, have you had a chance to go back to this definition?  I don't have my book handy, but thought I would raise it for discussion generally, and how to apply it to Pinnacles. Good gristle for the post mill.

cheers,
M

[Brad Young]

This one is a close call for sure. My thought is, it's a solo, but the height off the ground of a fall from any point on the climb is unlikely to kill the climber. A climber is on the summit after what, 20 feet of fifth class? That would be "R" without question except that the landing isn't flat, it's rocky.

Plus the so-so cam might hold a fall (but we should assume it's essentially a solo).

Another factor in my mind is the total lack of surprise. A climber can see the whole route from very close up. The risk is totally obvious, so, in a way, the "R" and/or "X" aren't so much needed or valuable as in a longer or less easily visible route.

I'm open to suggestions from others. So far I lean toward "R," I think you lean toward "X," and we know Mr. Mud votes for "R-" (don't bother commenting Mr. Mud, your vote is preordained     ).

[F4?]

How about an "S" rating for Stupid. Not to be confused with "Safe".

[mungeclimber]

using the definition in the book that I went back to, I think it is X. But like I said I can't quote the printed material, so maybe can add more later.  It's definitely a close call.


But one thing to add is that an R or X rating may or may not draw a person to a particular area?  So e.g. I, as an average user, wouldn't go up the trail to do just Unmentionable, but maybe I would if I could do the Anvil, Unmentionable and The Rest Stop, but wouldn't bother if I know that the Anvil and Rest Stop are X climbs, but Unmentionable is not an X.


thoughts? 

[skully]

Safety Third!
Yer gonna die!!!

[mungeclimber]

Thought I was on the Needful route (and I was on top rope).

[F4?]

Yeah, you are going to die. Sack up!

I like that safety 3rd.

[mungeclimber]

I like pendos.

[waldo]

It's often a fine line between X and R.  In 1977 or thereabouts I visited Unmentionable with my old friend Ed Foley.  Ed led up the regular route and slipped (no sticky rubber yet) as he stepped onto the summit.  He fell head first and, between slack and rope stretch, he ended the fall folded in half and staring at the ground from about knee height.  He was not seriously injured, depending on how you define seriously. He was wearing an old Whillans sit harness, the kind with one strap across the crotch.  Ed had to walk sideways to get back to the beer.

[mungeclimber]

hah! awesome!

[Brad Young]

hah! awesome!

Yeah (at least in retrospect).

[F4?]

I have my own rating gauge....I look at whose route it is...
Jack h....it will be run and you'll be slinging everything.
Jim m....it will be run since he was cheap on bolts. And you have to always do 1 more move
Eric s......he'll say 5.9, but we know better.
Rupert k....way run
Higgens....run
Clint...sporty and reasonable pro
Jim b....there's always a catch
Munge...it's 5.9
Brad.....reasonable pro....can't get too hurt, lest he get sued.

Hope it doesn't offend too many.

[mungeclimber]

Generally, "R" indicates that a climb is run out and or more dangerous than average... An "X" rating indicates an extremely dangerous climb - one where a fall will mean serious injury or death... 

Note that "Nelson's Needle" West Face gets an X rating. Isn't that the one that is essentially a short solo that faces toward the other formation near it?  Or am I confusing Salathe's Sliver with it?

[waldo]

I went to Sliver more than once and enjoyed it.  The only thing that bubbles up about Nelson's is manky stoppers, very manky.

[mungeclimber]

Waldo, yeah, I've been out there once and thoroughly enjoyed it.  It's just been a long time. Unfortunately it's part of closures now.



I wonder if with the heavy precip this year if that affects the raptor nesting habits.

[squiddo]

I have my own rating gauge....I look at whose route it is...
Jack h....it will be run and you'll be slinging everything.
Jim m....it will be run since he was cheap on bolts. And you have to always do 1 more move ;D
Eric s......he'll say 5.9, but we know better.
Rupert k....way run
Higgens....run
Clint...sporty and reasonable pro
Jim b....there's always a catch
Munge...it's 5.9
Brad.....reasonable pro....can't get too hurt, lest he get sued.

Hope it doesn't offend too many.

ha, just read this. funny...particularly Brad. I dig hit routes and aspire to repeat more.

[Jim McConachie]

R is a state of desire.  X is a state of mind.

[mungeclimber]

R is a state of desire.  X is a state of mind.

heavy

gotta ponder that one for a bit

[F4?]

It's all good!

Munge, remember when we did that x one on the back side of the western front?

I don't think you even gave me a drill to lead with??

[waldo]

Hey, that one on the back of the Western Front was a fine top-rope.  There's nothing to prove out there.