Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread

[waldo]

It's worth carrying the crampons out for that bit.

[JC w KC redux]

I replaced the first 3 hangers on the Fourth Sister West Face Route #239 with stainless hangers. The bolts are carbon steel 5 piece Rawls of unknown age that showed only some minor rust. The top bolt(bolt #4) refused to budge even after a second attempt with a bigger ratchet handle. The 12 point socket I was using was trying to slip/strip the bolt and I didn't have a 6 point socket for that handle. The remaining hanger is a Leeper, and the climbing on that section is the easiest on the route. I looked at the empty bolt hole described in the guidebook and after blowing it out, my blow tube only went in about an inch. I should have checked depth with my drill - in case the hole was filled with debris too solid to blow out. Regardless, I don't think the hole needs any metal. The guidebook description only lists 3 bolts and an empty hole for this route - there are actually 4 bolts and an empty, partially drilled hole. I've always thought this is an excellent beginner's lead. I also replaced the chains at the anchor. The old setup had two smash links on one side and the other side had a screwlink/quicklink with an even number of links( with two smash links on the rope end.

[mungeclimber]

Hi JC,
Can you clarify the above bolt and hanger work?

1. You only replaced the hangers? Sounds like it, but you have the bolt pictures up, so wasn't sure given the discussion about the difficulty of pulling the bolts.
2. How much force was used on the bolts to undo them? I shouldn't be worried, right?


I vaguely recall a story of that upper bolt hole being told to me by someone, but probably was just talk. Something about starting the hole, but the bit broke, so they just ran it.

[JC w KC redux]

Hi JC,
Can you clarify the above bolt and hanger work?

1. You only replaced the hangers? Sounds like it, but you have the bolt pictures up, so wasn't sure given the discussion about the difficulty of pulling the bolts.
2. How much force was used on the bolts to undo them? I shouldn't be worried, right?


I vaguely recall a story of that upper bolt hole being told to me by someone, but probably was just talk. Something about starting the hole, but the bit broke, so they just ran it.

Correct - I only replaced the hangers. There was no pulling of bolts - only removal. I added a stainless washer to each bolt too, since the old bolt/hanger combos had no washer. Since we don't have an FA date, I decided to show the pic so folks could see the light rust on the bolts. I was able to remove the bolts using a 5 3/4" mini ratchet handle(1/4" drive).

The bit breaking would explain why they didn't finish that last hole. It's not what I would call a run.

[JC w KC redux]

Bruce and I were out Friday working and I did a little more yesterday.
3-21-14
Portent p1 anchor right bolt replaced (old bolt was a 3/8 split shaft)
Portent top anchor - one old bolt removed (another 3/8 split shaft).
Portent now has two 5 piece bolts at every anchor.

Fourth Sister North Rib 5.1R*(route 238) - I added a SS washer to the lone protection bolt.(original RB FoP 2004)
I removed the old protection bolt - 3/8 split shaft with extremely loose homemade steel tab hanger and patched the hole.

Fourth Sister West Face(route 239):

Edit: I added SS washers and replaced the first 3 hangers on the Fourth Sister West Face Route #239 with stainless hangers. The top bolt(bolt #4) refused to budge. I also put new 3/8 galvanized chains and two new screw links at the anchor.

I used a breaker bar on bolt 4. It turned about a half turn and then broke.
We drilled a new hole and replaced that bolt.
The route now has 3 carbon steel 5 pc bolts with new SS washers and SS hangers and one new SS 5 pc bolt

First Sister Back Side (route 227) - Bruce removed the old star dryvin with SMC death hanger and drilled a new hole for the new SS 5 pc bolt. The old bolt was not flush with the hanger and placed in questionable rock. Bruce found better rock slightly up and right for the new bolt. The drilling stance was not fun for Bruce, but the new bolt is sweet!...





3-22-14
First Sister West Face Center Route (route 225)
I added a SS washer and SS hanger to bolt 1 (old hanger was a Leeper).
I replaced bolt 2 with a SS bolt and hanger. I forgot my patch material, so I will need to go back and patch the old hole.

[mungeclimber]

Thx for all the good work guys! 

Question: Is there some reason you're mixing metal grades? With all the nice SS bolts and hangers, replacing just hangers and washers sounds a little odd to me. Is the idea to just get the death hangers off the climbs sooner rather than later?

thx,
M

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

Munge,

in the Pinnacles (and 99% of the climbing areas in the US for that matter) there is no problem with mixed metal.  Galvinic Corrosion is a horribly overblown fear.  The Rawl/Powers 5-pieces we are removing and replacing hangers on show only very minimal surface rust and should last 50+ years.  There is just too much other crap out there to worry about replacing these bolts.

Bruce

[F4?]

Like ticks!

[mungeclimber]

Munge,

in the Pinnacles (and 99% of the climbing areas in the US for that matter) there is no problem with mixed metal.  Galvinic Corrosion is a horribly overblown fear.  The Rawl/Powers 5-pieces we are removing and replacing hangers on show only very minimal surface rust and should last 50+ years.  There is just too much other crap out there to worry about replacing these bolts.

Bruce

Thx Bruce. I disagree that there isn't any problem. I've seen a fair bit of rust because of SS hangers on carbon bolts. Which is not to say the rust is other than superficial... at this time. Just mostly curious on the approach. Clearly, you're doing a good job triaging the worst offending bolts, and catching the good low hanging fruit where you can. thx!

cheers,
M

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

Munge,

can you give me some examples where you think there is a problem?  I haven't seen anything that concerned me at the Pinnacles, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[mungeclimber]

Bruce,

No need.   We're on semantics here now. There is no problem... at this time. Viewed along a time horizon, the ones showing rust now will have to get changed, eventually.

Absent bad rock, the metal isn't going to crack any time soon. But it is 'a' problem that will need to be dealt with at some point, and the right thing to do, as you said, is to take care of the real crap first. Put the resources where they need to be.

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

I should qualify my remarks about the hype on galvanic corrosion.

When I say there is no problem I mean that there is no problem with good, high quality carbon steel bolts and SS hangers.  Powers/Rawl carbon steel 5-pieces are Grade 5 carbon steel.

With wedge bolts there is a huge difference in quality of the bolts and steel used.  I still believe that what people are seeing is just the poor rustproofness of poor quality steel bolts and not galvanic corrosion, but with poor quality steel who knows.

[JC w KC redux]

I replaced one bolt on 2nd Sister yesterday. There are no bolts listed on this climb in the guidebook. It was a star dryvin with a broken/torn aluminum tab hanger. Kat spotted it as she followed the route. Man that belay is exposed - and no anchor 

I am only speculating here, but this bolt may have originally been used as protection for the final face of the 2nd Sister (since there is no summit anchor) or to belay the 2nd Sister East Face 5.7R.

I also carefully checked the summit to make sure there was no evidence of an anchor ever being there - there was no evidence.

On my way down, I patched the old hole I left a few weeks ago when I rebolted First Sister Center Route.

2nd Sister Old found bolt w torn hanger





setup for working on the rebolt (slung knob and Kat kept me tied off on belay)





view from 1st Sister Backside route to replacement bolt on 2nd Sister (left of the noticeable lodestone)

[Uncle Stinky]

Thanks and Happy b-day.

[mungeclimber]

neat find on 2nd sister.

[JC w KC redux]

I put this together today Let me know what y'all think.
I can tweak it if it needs different formatting or what not.

Brad - I didn't have a date for the Snail.

SOURCES
Mud & Crud Rebolt thread sticky as of 6-9-14 + compilation from Clint's list(see link at start of sticky).
I also combed through the ASCA rebolt info (see sticky link).

Of particular interest to me was the info on The Hand, Thumb, Snail and Frog.

Legend:
Climb #, climb name, rebolter(s).
If no specific info is listed, all the lead bolts/hangers were replaced – designated by “route”.
If a route was only partially rebolted or specific parts were replaced – then those are listed.
 
38 – Steve’s Folly – route - Hildenbrand, Cook, Feb 2014
58 – Portent – all anchors - Hildenbrand, Cook, Feb 2014
82 – Ordeal – anchor - Hildenbrand, Cook, Feb 2014
152 – Monolith NE Corner - route - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
185 - Bridwell Bolts – bolts 1, 2, 3 and starting from the top 6 more – Brad Young, April 2001
225 – First Sister West Face Center Route - #1 hanger, #2 bolt/hanger – Cook, Mar 2014
227 – First Sister Back Side – route - Hildenbrand, Cook, Mar 2014
228 – Second Sister – one route bolt/hanger - not listed in 2007 guide – Cook, April 2014
232 – Third Sister - #1 hanger, #2 bolt/hanger, anchor - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
233 – Little Sister Spire Notch Route – route and anchor - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
238 – Fourth Sister North Rib - #1 hanger, old #2 bolt removed - Hildenbrand, Cook, Mar 2014
239 – Fourth Sister West Face - #1,#2,#3 hanger, #4 bolt/hanger, anchor - Hildenbrand, Cook, Mar 2014
249 – Big Marmot Regular Route – route and anchor - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
268 – Shoot the Tube – route and one bolt/hanger added(#5) + anchor with rings, J McConachie Jan 2013
271 – Split Infinity – route and anchor, J McConachie Jan 2013
274 – Dance on a Volcano – route and anchor, J McConachie Jan 2013
327 – Back of the Hand – p1: 1 anchor bolt, 1 route bolt, p2: 1 anchor bolt – D.E. Mr Mud, 1995
334 – The Thumb Regular Route – route and anchor – Fletcher, Jan 2000
335 – 50 Meter Must – route – old bolts left intact – The Merry Cranksters, Nov 2001
336 – The Snail – route and anchor – B Young
343 – Tuff – route partial (4 of 6 bolts) – B Young, D.E. Mr Mud, Jan 2003
350 – Ski Jump – route and anchor – Lampley, Jan 2000
351 – Lonesome Dove – route and anchor – Fletcher, Jan 2000
389 – Little Mustaugh – partial route – Brad Young, Nov 2000
487 – Lonely Sheepherder - #1 hanger, all other route bolts/hangers, Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
488 – Piece of Ewe – route + 1 bolt/hanger added at p2 belay - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
503 – Flatiron Apron Regular Route – route and anchor – Fletcher, Nov 2001
504 - Flatiron Apron Right - route and anchor – Fletcher, Nov 2001
534 – Sponge Regular Route – all hangers - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Dec 2013
538 – Burgundy Dome Rappel Route – all hangers - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Dec 2013
550 – Tuff Dome Traverse – route - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Dec 2013
665 – The Torso – anchor and all but last 2 route bolts – Fletcher Oct 1999
666 – Humming Bird Spire – anchor - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Feb 2013
700 – Rumbling Rampart – bolt 4 – Fletcher Nov 2000
752 – No Smiles - #2 bolt/hanger – Behrens, Dec 2012
764 – Toog’s Gallery - #1 hanger, all other route bolts/hangers, Hildenbrand, Cummins, Feb 2013
765 – Toog’s Gallery Direct Finish – bolt #1, Cummins Jan 2014
766 – Toog’s Alligator – route - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Feb 2013
767 – Toog’s Tarbaby – route - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Feb 2013
767 – Toog’s Tarbaby - upper bolt/hanger (not shown in 2007 guide), Cummins, Cook Jan 2014
769 – Thundering Herd – route - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Cook Jan 2014
770 – Tugboat – route and anchor - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Apr 2012
784 – Machete Direct – p2 anchor Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
784 - Machete Direct - p3 belay hangers Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
793 – Lucky 13 – all hangers - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
795 – Alias Bandit Bench – p2 bolts/hangers, p2 hangers - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
796 – True Grit - # 1 bolts/hangers, #3 hanger Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2013
798 – Daedalus – #1 bolt/hanger, p1 belay anchor, p2 bolt/hanger - Hildenbrand, Cummins, Jan 2014
          ASCA list says replaced the 6th and 7th protection bolts - Hildenbrand, Cummins, 11/06   
810 – Triple X – Mucci Nov 2010 (bolts 1-4, 7, anchor), Mucci, Behrens, Mar 2014 (bolts 5, 6 and
818/820/821 – Son of Dawn Wall – mostly replaced – old bolts need narrow biners – Cummins, Mar 2002
821 – Son of Dawn Wall – one bolt/hanger of three at p1 anchor, Queener, Jan 2013
826 – Desperado Chute-Out – partial (7 bolts) – Cummins, Feb 2002
835 – The Hideout – route – July 1999, M Fletcher

[mungeclimber]

Are you recompiling all rebolting, just last two years?

Goal of recompiling?  Better to provided feedback if I have the end goal in mind.

Wrt ASCA...

There is some funky info on the ASCA site from Mark Fletcher - for example - he lists the Regular Route on The Thumb - pulled 5 bolts, placed 4 - book says there's two.

pulled an extraneous one?

Replaced 4 as in 2 on the route, and 2 anchors?

[F4?]

we also need the type of bolt and hanger color.

[JC w KC redux]

Are you recompiling all rebolting, just last two years?

Goal of recompiling?  Better to provided feedback if I have the end goal in mind.

Wrt ASCA...

pulled an extraneous one?

Replaced 4 as in 2 on the route, and 2 anchors?

Munge - I was just trying to get all the RB info on here into one compact space so folks don't have to scroll through the entire thread - plus I removed all the fine details. You're probably right about The Thumb Reg Rte but he doesn't specify. I like the way Brad has it in the book. I need to double check ASCA and Clint's site against the book and the thread and I can add in anything I find so it's ALL in one place. I think I only saw a couple items on the ASCA list. My plan is to make it a sticky on the site.

[mynameismud]

looks nice