Author Topic: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread  (Read 5421048 times)

squiddo

  • Pin Heads
  • *
  • Posts: 2383
  • If it itches, scratch it.
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #600 on: October 31, 2015, 06:09:45 PM »
New one indeed Brad. Glad it worked out well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Every climb gets 3 stars from me until I climb it.
-Anonymous spirited climber

JC w KC redux

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6563
  • my density has brought me to you...
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #601 on: October 31, 2015, 06:21:37 PM »
Nice. That looks like an enjoyable and fun lead - but that is the weirdest looking rock!
I like all the different colored tops on the crew.
We'll see about getting you back out of status at Pinns tomorrow :)
One wheel shy of normal

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6664
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #602 on: October 31, 2015, 06:44:05 PM »

Nice. That looks like an enjoyable and fun lead - but that is the weirdest looking rock!
I like all the different colored tops on the crew.
We'll see about getting you back out of status at Pinns tomorrow :)

The odd colored rock way below us is a slab with water flowing down it.

And you're only allowed to get me "out of status" if you have plenty of fun doing it.
 

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6172
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #603 on: October 31, 2015, 07:09:17 PM »
Brad, you should hand drill. Much safer..
I'm not worthy.

Bruce Hildenbrand

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #604 on: October 31, 2015, 07:45:52 PM »
Brad,

I have some bits that have only been used for 30-40 holes if you need a replacement.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6664
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #605 on: October 31, 2015, 07:56:14 PM »

Brad, you should hand drill. Much safer..


Quote

I have some bits that have only been used for 30-40 holes if you need a replacement.



Don't either of you have anything constructive to do on a Saturday night (like go trick or treating).


clink

  • Meanderthal
  • ****
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #606 on: November 01, 2015, 05:56:19 AM »
Quote
Don't either of you have anything constructive to do on a Saturday night (like go trick or treating).

 Too late for this year. Next Halloween you can go as Brad. This will take some work.

 First the costume. An old t-shirt(rugby if it's cold), short shorts( if you can not find these, you can make a pair easily enough by cutting 6 inches off a normal pair of shorts) and any size day pack. Now sew on patches and some of the patches will need patches sewn over them as well to be authentic. This will take days and it would be a good idea to coax someone else into doing it for you.

 Next, research and map all your local neighborhood spots for tick or treating. Take a few pictures of the creepiest houses and note the ones that give out two or more handfuls of booty, put a number of stars next to these accordingly.  Make a guide with the maps, descriptions, a few pics and it's OK to throw a few stars in the crappy neighborhoods if a friend you know lives there, or you have a rental there, or it's your mechanic's house etc.
 
 Now you are ready for next Halloween! You will look like a famous person who fell on hard times and will know the best spots for raking in a big haul. All the while selling copies of your "Guide to My Local Trick Or Treating" by yourself and whoever you could rope in somehow to help compile it. After 5 to 10 years you may even make a profit but by then it will be time to make a new, updated guide.

 The best part is that the costume will only get better with wear though the years.

 Note: If you don't have sexy legs go with the extremely patched pants version. If you end up feeling the need to knock on every door in your county, see a shrink.

 
Causing trouble when not climbing.

mungeclimber

  • PermaBan
  • ***
  • Posts: 6665
    • http://www.sonorapassclimbing.com
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #607 on: November 01, 2015, 06:38:10 AM »
Whew! ;)
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6664
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #608 on: November 01, 2015, 08:00:56 AM »

 Too late for this year. Next Halloween you can go as Brad. This will take some work.

 First the costume. An old t-shirt(rugby if it's cold), short shorts( if you can not find these, you can make a pair easily enough by cutting 6 inches off a normal pair of shorts) and any size day pack. Now sew on patches and some of the patches will need patches sewn over them as well to be authentic. This will take days and it would be a good idea to coax someone else into doing it for you.

 Next, research and map all your local neighborhood spots for tick or treating. Take a few pictures of the creepiest houses and note the ones that give out two or more handfuls of booty, put a number of stars next to these accordingly.  Make a guide with the maps, descriptions, a few pics and it's OK to throw a few stars in the crappy neighborhoods if a friend you know lives there, or you have a rental there, or it's your mechanic's house etc.
 
 Now you are ready for next Halloween! You will look like a famous person who fell on hard times and will know the best spots for raking in a big haul. All the while selling copies of your "Guide to My Local Trick Or Treating" by yourself and whoever you could rope in somehow to help compile it. After 5 to 10 years you may even make a profit but by then it will be time to make a new, updated guide.

 The best part is that the costume will only get better with wear though the years.

 Note: If you don't have sexy legs go with the extremely patched pants version. If you end up feeling the need to knock on every door in your county, see a shrink.


 :P   :P



F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6172
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #609 on: November 01, 2015, 08:08:50 AM »
Our trick or treating was brief... A low yield year.
Sadly, at 7 there was a nuclear melt down.

All in all a good time.
I'm not worthy.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6664
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #610 on: November 01, 2015, 04:53:46 PM »

Nice. That looks like an enjoyable and fun lead.


As I look back on the photos of Cassy leading, it occurs to me that one could mistaken think that we bolted next to a crack. We didn't. Her fingers are getting slight purchase on a tiny, flared, knifeblade piton-size seam.

And Clink, I just can't emphasize enough how much trouble you're in.

Bruce Hildenbrand

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #611 on: November 01, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »

Don't either of you have anything constructive to do on a Saturday night (like go trick or treating).


Brad,

after a full day(and a bit of the night) rebolting on Thursday at Resurrection Wall, I was up at 7am on Friday morning to meet with Caltrans up on Highway 35 in the Santa Cruz Mountains about a 21-mile stretch of roadway where a report I filed with them three weeks ago halted the $2 million resurfacing project that I worked hard to get them to undertake this summer.  On Friday evening I emceed the annual Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition's fundraising dinner where we raised close to $100,000.

On Saturday, I was up early to take a load of donated bike parts up to Trips for Kids in San Rafael then spent the afternoon bike riding up and around Mt. Tamalpais with my GF.

On Sunday, I was up at 6:30am to drive over to the Santa Cruz County Fairgrounds in Watsonville to spend all day announcing the second race of the four race Surf City Cyclocross series.

Saturday night was a very good, and necessary,  opportunity to recharge my batteries.

JC w KC redux

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6563
  • my density has brought me to you...
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #612 on: November 01, 2015, 08:57:28 PM »
And Clink, I just can't emphasize enough how much trouble you're in.

I vote that he have the honor of being the official Mud N Crud Roaster.

He got me good today saying I pulled the crux on our new climb like a Zombie Ballerina :)
One wheel shy of normal

clink

  • Meanderthal
  • ****
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #613 on: November 02, 2015, 06:19:58 AM »
 You know I love you guys.

 Bruce, Do you have many five piece spinners? Yesterday Julius drilled a 1/2 inch deeper than necessary 3/8 hole in decent rock and it was a spinner. JC led past it and when the route was finished I pulled it. The replacement 5 piece tightened perfectly. A couple weeks back JC and Nelkins had the same spinners twice on one route. It appears the nose cone seizes on the end of the bolt.

 Julius stance placed a 3 3/4 inch double wedge that I gave him at the crux. At that point on the climb we could not chance the "maybe it will work" results of the 5 piece. Are the tolerances between bolts and bits off? JC suggested testing out a 10mm bit. Any suggestions?

 Brad, you will thoroughly enjoy the new route on Love Handles. 1.48 stars IMO. 4 bolts exactly where you commit at three folds. Last one is surprisingly burly. Watching JC spread eagled on it was very entertaining.

 

 
Causing trouble when not climbing.

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6172
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #614 on: November 02, 2015, 07:39:30 AM »
You can take a tuning fork and give the bolt some outward tension. To try and engage the cone.

Had a few and they suck.

I'm not worthy.

mungeclimber

  • PermaBan
  • ***
  • Posts: 6665
    • http://www.sonorapassclimbing.com
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #615 on: November 02, 2015, 07:56:52 AM »
You know I love you guys.

 Bruce, Do you have many five piece spinners? Yesterday Julius drilled a 1/2 inch deeper than necessary 3/8 hole in decent rock and it was a spinner. JC led past it and when the route was finished I pulled it. The replacement 5 piece tightened perfectly. A couple weeks back JC and Nelkins had the same spinners twice on one route. It appears the nose cone seizes on the end of the bolt.

 Julius stance placed a 3 3/4 inch double wedge that I gave him at the crux. At that point on the climb we could not chance the "maybe it will work" results of the 5 piece. Are the tolerances between bolts and bits off? JC suggested testing out a 10mm bit. Any suggestions?

 Brad, you will thoroughly enjoy the new route on Love Handles. 1.48 stars IMO. 4 bolts exactly where you commit at three folds. Last one is surprisingly burly. Watching JC spread eagled on it was very entertaining.

 

 

spinners seem to happen when the material inside the hole breaks up a little bit, at least at Pinns. Using a draw to tension it downward while tightening sometimes works. Sometimes you get a Bob Pocket. Weirdest thing either of us had ever seen. 3/8" hole turned into a un unusable 1/2" hole that was bigger on the inside.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

clink

  • Meanderthal
  • ****
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #616 on: November 02, 2015, 09:17:55 AM »
Quote
spinners seem to happen when the material inside the hole breaks up a little bit, at least at Pinns. Using a draw to tension it downward while tightening sometimes works. Sometimes you get a Bob Pocket. Weirdest thing either of us had ever seen. 3/8" hole turned into a un unusable 1/2" hole that was bigger on the inside.

 We've tried yanking out with tether per Fixe video with no luck. Prying out with a bar on a few, and once with a tuning fork didn't work. I will try the downward tension technique next time and see if it works. This hole yesterday seemed perfect and the second bolt fit well into it, same with the holes JC and Noal re-used do to our  "bettering" technique at pulling the longer 5-piece.

 I did have a Bob Pocket(after Walton?) on the first bolt on Joaquin the Dog. The replacement bolt bit hard in good rock about 16 inches away from the original not so great rock reachable from the stance.

 Another note is that some of the Gals are putting up a no guys, all female FA. It was inspiring to have Kathy show up at our route as we were packing up, with her war stories of the days battle making forward progress on their enterprise.



 
 
Causing trouble when not climbing.

JC w KC redux

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6563
  • my density has brought me to you...
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #617 on: November 02, 2015, 09:32:42 AM »
I've tried all the techniques repeatedly to no avail. When I get a spinner I try downward tension technique first, then funking and lastly pulsing/prying out slight with crowbar. All of these techniques have failed in most instances.
Recovered bolts show deformation of the nose cone - it's those little slits allowing the nose cone to close up slightly if it isn't driven in perfectly in line with the drilled hole.
Once the slits close too much the bolt can't pass through the nose cone. When the bolt hits the constriction in the nose cone it binds and the bolt and nose cone start spinning together in the sleeve. Nose cone engagement isn't the problem - which is what can be cured by the various fix it techniques above.
The fact that we have now removed 3 spinner bolts and replaced them with new bolts that tighten perfectly is compelling evidence. All the removed bolts had deformation of the nose cone which would not allow the bolt to advance through the cone.
I believe that a solid nose cone (without the slits) would cure the problem. I am not going back to school to get a mechanical engineering degree so I can work for Powers but I am going to try to talk to someone about the design. Maybe I can get Dan Merrick to machine some test nose cones :)
 
One wheel shy of normal

clink

  • Meanderthal
  • ****
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #618 on: November 02, 2015, 09:44:37 AM »
Quote
When I get a spinner I try downward tension technique first, then funking and lastly pulsing/prying out slight

Yes, it is pretty funking frustrating.

JC, you should write how to manuals.  ;)
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6664
Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #619 on: November 02, 2015, 10:43:48 AM »

...then spent the afternoon bike riding up and around Mt. Tamalpais with my GF.


What, you have a girlfriend? I don't remember FoP or the MoM authorizing you to distract yourself that way....