Author Topic: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread  (Read 5420997 times)

mynameismud

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #560 on: May 25, 2015, 03:20:10 PM »
Jeepers JC, in a year or two the question will be what hasn't been reboolted.
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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #561 on: May 25, 2015, 04:36:55 PM »
Jeepers JC, in a year or two the question will be what hasn't been reboolted.

Wanna see something REALLY scary? - Check these out

Old bolt 1 Tunnel Traverse - 1/4" bolt with funky home made hanger





Old bolt 5 Tunnel Traverse - this is the only bolt I got out completely intact.
You can see how far the pin was engaged in the split shaft by looking at the corrosion.
That also explains why so many threads were showing.
This was perhaps the most worthwhile rebolting of a route I've done so far.
These bolts are called set bolts. The only way these can be pulled out successfully is if the rock is bad - otherwise there is no way to get the pin to disengage and the stud shaft will break under stress.




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mynameismud

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #562 on: May 25, 2015, 05:08:13 PM »
give new meaning to key hole hanger.
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mungeclimber

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #563 on: May 25, 2015, 06:02:20 PM »
Cool, thx for follow up kq
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NOAL

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #564 on: May 26, 2015, 11:33:44 AM »
JC that upper pic needs a caption like "funky old bolt in it's natural habitat"

Cool scary ass stuff.

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #565 on: May 31, 2015, 08:05:38 PM »
Leonard-Horsfall Route on Scout Peak is done. This completes rebolting for the crag.

Noal worked his arse off getting the old bolt out sans crowbar (some old fool who shall remain nameless left the crowbar at home). The bolt was a very strange compilation of materials. The nail was literally a concrete nail slammed into doubled star dryvin sleeves with no lead end piece - on a cool Longware hanger. The sleeves were under the hanger and mangled by the nail - making the whole rig super tight and hard to remove.
Noal worked on it by sitting in an awkward large hole in the wall - inside the squeeze chimney. There was little room to swing the hammer - making the job much harder. His efforts on this one were greatly appreciated.
I'll post some pics tomorrow.

After the bolt replacement - Noal let me have the honor of leading the route. This is a very cool and historic route with varied climbing, good rock, hairy exposure and decent gear placements. It is star worthy in my book. Neither of us thought it was 5.3
The old piton has a ring that's in a bind and is very rusty - probably not long for this world. Noal and I were both a bit disturbed by the fact that there was a biner left on the piton. Someone had obviously been lowered off that crusty old thing. Definitely puts them in the running for a Darwin award.
   
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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #566 on: June 01, 2015, 09:37:12 AM »
Noal really took one for the team on this rebolting project - in order to work - he was wedged in the "hidey hole" on the right wall of Leonard-Horsfall’s squeeze chimney section. It took a lot of effort for him to get in and out of that tight, uncomfortable spot and then he had to deal with the "no leverage" situation of working in the squeeze and nothing to use for extraction beyond stacking two tuning forks (there was no room to use the crowbar) and some other creative solutions. It's tighter than it looks from below.





The old bolt on Leonard Horsfall was an unusually stubborn star dryvin with no sleeve exposed (sleeves under the hanger)

The nail was unusual - it had no star pattern.

Noal said he couldn’t tell for sure how many sleeves they stacked in the hole – under the hanger - but it appeared to be at least two.
He said it was all smashed and mangled under the hanger and in the hole.
After looking at the remains in more detail - the smaller pieces were lead - not a second pair of sleeves - but the lead was up high in the hole as though it had been stacked with the sleeve. Maybe it slid up the sleeve when they placed slid it in the hole because the hole was really tight. The rock is really solid where they placed it (maybe an embedded lodestone) - so the hole may have been tighter than normal. Maybe they used a worn or slightly undersized bit? We'll never know. It is a cool, old, historic route.


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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #567 on: June 01, 2015, 09:54:39 AM »
^^^
Looks like the bolt hanger on the only bolt was hanger #3.
Interesting since the FA on the route is 1939 and this catalog is from '68.

The pitons on Scout appear to be the #1 Ring angles shown on the left.



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mungeclimber

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #568 on: June 01, 2015, 10:04:41 AM »

Interesting since the FA on the route is 1939 and this catalog is from '68.


Maybe it was rebolted from the original? An early retro bolt?

Old books describe the bolt in that location?
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mynameismud

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #569 on: June 01, 2015, 11:12:17 AM »
that does not look like a fun spot for bolt replacement.
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NOAL

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #570 on: June 01, 2015, 11:47:48 AM »
It was definitely a comical and unique stance to drill a bolt.  In JC's pic I am leaning out of the hole.  While drilling your upper body is totally in the hole. There was  little room to move your arms and that really limited the angles to extract the bolt.  If JC had brought the crowbar I do not know how helpful it would have been.  There was not much room side to side or up and down to lever back on the bar without hitting something.  We were able to re-use the hole so the bolt is in it's original location which is cool. 

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #571 on: June 01, 2015, 12:38:16 PM »
Maybe it was rebolted from the original? An early retro bolt?

Old books describe the bolt in that location?

Unfortunately I don't have the old books. Maybe Brad or Bruce can shed some light?
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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #572 on: July 20, 2015, 07:57:32 PM »
I/we deployed a dozen shiny metal bits this past week.
My buddy Julius has been wanting to learn how to drill and rebolt, so I took him out for some training on Thursday 7-16-15.
We needed something easy in a non-threatening environment, so I decided doing some anchor work on accessible sites would be best.
We started on the Love Handles 3rd class route where there are two old anchor bolts – one mangled star dryvin and a 3/8” split shaft – both with Leeper hangers. This anchor appears to be from someone toproping the formation – although no TR routes exist in the guidebook. We also found a hangerless ¼” stud on the route. I replaced the star dryvin as a learning exercise - since there are so many of these bolts that still need replaced around the Monument. Julius got to drill part of the hole and observe all the removal and installation techniques. The pic I posted of Julius on the “How was your day dear” thread is from that day. The formation now has one new and one old (but seemingly still solid) anchor bolt. We proceeded to the hangerless ¼” stud and I showed Julius how to remove it. It popped relatively easily with the tuning fork – a 1½” long split shaft. It was good for him to see what one of these things looks like. We patched the hole.



Things were really starting to heat up and although I wanted to replace a bolt or two at the Spaceman Spiff anchors (clusters of star dryvins on SMC death hangers) - it was in full sun. We opted for Tourist Trap where I knew there was another short, easy, accessible project. There were two old belay bolts on opposite sides of a wide crack at the top of the easy ramp that leads to the true start of Nipple Jam. One star dryvin on a Leeper and one star with a death hanger. I had Julius replace the left one - from start to finish - and I did the right one. I was shocked by how easily both nails came out. There was no customary creaking sound and virtually no resistance. Julius had to extract the lead sleeve from his (good practice) but mine slid out all intact. Both nails looked like they just came out of the box – perfectly straight…disturbing. I felt particularly good about getting rid of these bolts since TT gets so much traffic.     

Yesterday (7-19-15)

Noal and I worked ourselves to the limit replacing nine bolts on The Fast Lane.
We lucked out after a surprisingly hot, early approach as clouds moved in to produce overcast skies and light sprinkles over the course of the day.

This was a particularly difficult job because eight of the old bolts were 3/8” carbon steel wedge bolts. The anchor consisted of two rusty 3/8” wedge bolts with stainless SMC hangers – a few feet below the original single bolt anchor (a star dryvin with an SMC death hanger). The current anchor bolts were disturbingly close to each other. The hangers had obviously been replaced at some point. Five of the other route bolts also had replacement hangers. Unfortunately, none of those hangers could be reused because the holes are only 5/16”. We drilled a new anchor and then Noal got started on the route while I removed the old anchor components.

Three of the lead bolts I replaced were in lodestones (we normally try not to place bolts in lodestones), so those were relocated to adjacent good rock. Two of them were wedge bolts and one was a ¼”, 1 ½” long split shaft on a death hanger (bolt 2).
With an unknown FA – we speculated as to the origins of this route.
One of the “surprises” we found on this route was a 3 ½” star dryvin with a death hanger. I have NEVER seen a star dryvin that long in Pinns. Noal said he slid the nail out with his fingers after barely starting it with the tuning fork. We weren’t sure if there was a lead sleeve in the hole because our lag bolts for lead extraction are only good for 2 ½”(normally the longest stars in Pinns).


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mynameismud

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #573 on: July 20, 2015, 08:55:26 PM »
Nice work.  I was talking to someone at Discovery Wall about The Fast Lane just the other weekend since they were thinking about going out there.  Nice to know there are now good bolts.  I like that route.
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NOAL

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #574 on: July 20, 2015, 09:44:10 PM »
I agree, it's a great route.  Really good quality rock bottom to top.  Interesting climbing in a groove, to a headwall/roof,
a little face climbing to mild runout. The old mish mash of hardware in my opinion detracted from the good qualities of the route.  Now people can focus more on the rock.   My favorite at the Frog next to you guessed it.....Get a Grip.  The Frog is such a great formation. Something for everyone.

kylequeener

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #575 on: July 30, 2015, 01:21:19 PM »


This was a particularly difficult job because eight of the old bolts were 3/8” carbon steel wedge bolts. These bolts cannot be removed. They must be snapped off, holes patched and all new holes drilled.


Maybe something to look into. Looks like wedge bolts CAN be removed. See link.


http://www.mountainproject.com/v/inexpensive-bolt-extractor/109487927__1

JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #576 on: July 30, 2015, 06:29:00 PM »
Maybe something to look into. Looks like wedge bolts CAN be removed. See link.

Thanks Kyle. I appreciate you trying to help.
I read all his info and watched all of his videos on bolt extraction a couple months back.
The problem is that in order to use his nifty extraction tool you have to first disengage the cone and then spin the bolt at high speed for several minutes with a power drill to cut a groove in the cone so it can't re-engage the sleeve when you try to pull it. They also had a small hydraulic puller in the videos. 
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kylequeener

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #577 on: July 30, 2015, 07:35:43 PM »
Thanks Kyle. I appreciate you trying to help.
I read all his info and watched all of his videos on bolt extraction a couple months back.
The problem is that in order to use his nifty extraction tool you have to first disengage the cone and then spin the bolt at high speed for several minutes with a power drill to cut a groove in the cone so it can't re-engage the sleeve when you try to pull it. They also had a small hydraulic puller in the videos. 


I'm not sure about several minutes of spinning with the drill. In the video he didn't spend much time spinning it to cut the groove.  It probably takes longer to drill a new hole than it does to cut the groove. Also one of the pullers is not hydraulic, just a modified C-clamp. The hydraulic do-dad seems overkill. Honestly it doesn't look like that big of a deal to me. Especially for carbon steel bolts. It seems to be worth trying out. It's definitely way better to extract the bolt rather than chop, patch, and drill a new hole. I'm sure you agree.

I'll make one and test it, just for shits and giggles, and report back.


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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #578 on: July 30, 2015, 08:14:06 PM »
I'm not sure about several minutes of spinning with the drill. In the video he didn't spend much time spinning it to cut the groove. 
I'll make one and test it, just for shits and giggles, and report back.

I honestly couldn't remember how long he spun it for but after I saw it took a power drill - I lost interest.

Let me know how it goes. Any efforts are much appreciated.

That route is the first one we've done with some wedges.
There's still a ton of star dryvins and various sized split shafts out there that need replaced.
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kylequeener

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #579 on: July 30, 2015, 08:33:47 PM »

after I saw it took a power drill - I lost interest.



Be the drill, Danny. Be the drill.