Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread

[JC w KC redux]

I tried to pull out the first lead protection bolt on the first pitch of "Derringer", which was the only original bolt that has not been replaced, but the 3/8" threaded stud split-shaft bolt broke in the hole. This bolt was replaced by a new 3/8" x 2-3/4" Fixe single-wedge, stainless steel bolt and a Fixe 3/8" stainless steel hanger in a new hole drilled about 5" to the left and at the same elevation.  I did not have hole patching material, but next time I am climbing this route, which I do several times during the year, I will patch the hole.  All other lead and belay bolts on this climb have been previously replaced.

Thanks for the work Mark.
I will add this info to the Master List. I need to update a few things I have replaced too.
If you run across any more split shafts - let me know. The puller tool Bruce gave me will pull them right out very cleanly and the hole can be reused. I think the Access Fund is selling the tools for around $30 - I can check with Bruce or put you in touch with him if you need supplies.

[JC w KC redux]

Last weekend I replaced a couple anchor bolts and inspected both midway stations on 1st Sister.
I made the following updates to the Master List today.

34 – Heffalump – route and anchor – J Cook 12-11-17

221 – Backside Route Third Class – one of two anchor bolts replaced – J Cook, J De La Peña, 7-16-15 – 2nd anchor bolt replaced – J Cook, 12-29-17 

225 – First Sister West Face Center Route - #1 hanger, #2 bolt/hanger – J Cook, Mar 2014 - convenience bolt at midway anchor – J Cook, 12-29-17

831 – Bullseye – anchor - M Fletcher Mar 1999, 3 lead bolts – M Fletcher 12-30-17

833 – Derringer – route and anchors - M Fletcher, June 1999, p1 1st lead bolt - M Fletcher 12-30-17

[JC w KC redux]

I almost forgot

547 – H&L – Regular Route – left anchor bolt – J Cook, 12-27-17

[Brad Young]

On January 5th I finally got up to Heavens Gate to look at the lead bolt that was "too far to the left." Several climbers have told me over a period of years that the second-to-last bolt was a really hard clip - seriously too far left of where one actually climbs.

Boy was it. I couldn't even see whatever holds we'd stood on to drill the damn thing! All of the climbing there is now obviously on or slightly right of the arete and the bolt is (was) 30 inches (?) left of it.

I replaced the old bolt with an ASCA 1/2 inch stainless. I was pleased to find that the old bolt was in pretty good shape. But it was so badly out of position that this needed to be done (I think it is accepted that a member of the first ascent party can change positions of bolts on routes they put up).

The new bolt is about four feet right of the old and about eight inches lower. It's around to the right of the arete about 18 inches (the rock on the arete was too styrofoamy to place it there).

I removed the old bolt and carefully patched the hole.

[Brad Young]

After Heaven's Gate I went to The Yaks to check topos and route descriptions. I was quite pleased at how much I got done.

While there I had a very, very serious discussion with a large poison oak mass that was utterly choking the base of Yaks Wall at and left of the route Tato Pani (in size it was generally 20 feet along the wall and up to five feet out from it). My persuasive skills worked. The mass decided to move and is now gone completely from the area (I have a small and amusing patch of poison oak on the inside of my left forearm).

[mynameismud]

I know that patch of PO.  You are much braver than I am.

[Brad Young]

You are much braver than I am.

Maybe, maybe regarding poison oak (to which I have developed a fair degree of resistance over the years).

But overall, and considering the routes you've put up at Pinnacles, your statement is laughable 

[JC w KC redux]

On January 5th I finally got up to Heavens Gate to look at the lead bolt that was "too far to the left."
I replaced the old bolt with an ASCA 1/2 inch stainless.

I will add this to the Master List.
And thanks for doing that. I know you had given permission to any one of us that might want to relocate that bolt but ultimately I think it was best that you did it since it is your route. I was not going to do it.

[JC w KC redux]

Here is the old garbage anchor bolt I replaced on H&L on 12-27-17





I learned something very interesting yesterday while replacing the lead bolts on H&L. The lower bolt appeared to be a wedge bolt, since I saw no end to the threads. The stud was sticking out about an inch and the threads continued down into the hole. When I tapped the bolt (to tap it in and disengage the cone), it bottomed out in the hole and I assumed the cone did not disengage and the hole had been under drilled. I expected a fight. I decided to try my puller tool. It was pretty tight turning the puller tool but it seemed to be extracting the bolt without an extreme amount of force. I stopped after a series of turns and checked. The bolt was indeed coming up and out. I continued to turn and to my delight - the bolt came out. What happened next surprised me. Most three-eighths split shafts at Pinns are two and a half inches long. The threads are half an inch long and the actual split portion is 2 inches long. The bolt I just pulled out was a split shaft but the threads were an inch and a half long!

Here is a picture of a normal length split shaft (from the midway anchor on 1st Sister Center route) and the extra long split shaft (three and a half inches) I pulled out yesterday.

[JC w KC redux]

I added H&L and Heaven's Gate to the Master List.

[clink]

   
Question
 

Here in New Mexico’s volcanic rock we sometimes use glue to keep the rock from crumbling around the bolt. In one instance, glue was used in a vertically placed bolt in basalt to increase the pull-out strength, but this bolt actually pulled out! In other areas I have seen a silicone glue used in the hole to keep water out. Is there a rule for when to put glue in a bolt hole? Should we be specific about the types of glue?

—Aaron, Santa Fe, NM

Not to be indelicate, but the situation you detail makes me never want to climb in New Mexico. Glue-in bolts may be the strongest, longest-lasting and most bomber of all bolts, but I’d rather cut myself and free swim off the Great Barrier Reef than clip glue-ins that are someone’s science experiment.

Properly placing glue-ins ranks up there with replacing the brakes on your car—it takes tools and know-how, and it is easy to botch the job.

For a glue-in to be strong, the glue has to stick to the bolt and to the rock. Getting these bonds isn’t as easy as you might think. Hole cleanliness is paramount. Unlike mechanical bolts, where a quick toot on a piece of aquarium tubing suffices to clear the drill dust from the hole, glue-ins require a hole that is absolutely spotless. Think of your colon prepped for a colonoscopy.

To ram home how important the cleaning process is, tests conducted by Bolt Products show that a dirty hole can reduce a glue-in’s holding power by 90 percent.

To answer your question about the glue type, yes, there are specific glues to use with specific bolts. Bolt glues are resins. Some are two parts and you mix them with a special caulking gun. One popular glue is the suppository-like ampule that breaks and mixes in the hole. The manufacturers of this type recommend spinning the bolt in the hole at a minimum of 250 rpms, a task that requires mounting the bolt in the chuck of a power drill and spinning it at full bore. Spinning the bolt mixes the glue with the hardener. Since most bolts won’t fit in a drill (use threaded rod and get a rod-to-SDS chuck adapter from Hilti), climbers simply hand spin these bolts. As you can imagine, it is impossible to hand spin a bolt at 250 rpms—we can bet that 100 percent of bolts placed by hand did not have the glue mixed to specification.

That these bolts are not failing by the droves is testament to the massive overkill built into them by the construction industry.

The bolt failure you had in New Mexico could have been caused by a poor glue bond, but probably the glue gummed up the bolt’s workings and it didn’t tighten.

Putting any type of glue or caulking in a mechanical bolt (Powers five-piece, for example) hole is for this reason a no-no. Logically, gluing a mechanical bolt would seem to fortify it, but any mechanical bolt fits in the hole so snugly that most of the glue will either get pushed to the back of the hole, or forced out of the hole. There will be little, if any, glue on the bolt shaft or along the length of the hole. If you are going to use glue in soft rock, use actual glue-in bolts, such as 1/2- by 6-inch threaded rod. I’ve placed a bushel-full of this type bolt in rock that was no better than soap and 25 years later they are still in use.

You probably noticed that silicone caulking—the stuff you said you saw—is not on the list of approved bolt glues. Silicone caulking is sealant, not glue. Getting silicone caulking in the hole will compromise the bolt’s frictional grip and/or jam up its mechanical workings. Don’t use it!

Silicone caulking (or a rubber washer) might serve to temporarily seal over the hole and bolt, preventing water from getting in, but I think caulking causes more problems than it solves. The caulking hides the bolt, preventing you from visually inspecting it, and the caulking eventually cracks and pulls away from the rock, letting water in and making it harder for the bolt hole to dry.

Everything I have just noted is only an outline of what it takes to install glue-ins. Before you attempt to place a glue-in, read everything on the website bolt-products.com. This site covers bolting gear, design, glues and glue systems and installation tips in great detail. It also gives results for various tests on glue-ins—the data is often eye-opening. Gear Guy has spoken!

 

This article was published in Rock and Ice issue 205 (October 2012).

 

[JC w KC redux]

clink - you set me up but I am not taking the bait 

[clink]

  oh come on. The descriptions/comparisons were amusing.

[mynameismud]

wow, I clipped that?

[clink]

wow, I clipped that?

...or skipped it. At times you were 2 bolts shy of normal.

[mynameismud]

So I got better?
Sweet

[JC w KC redux]

I added Tuff Dome Regular Route to the list today.
Squeaked it in before the closures.

[JC w KC redux]

I spent the day replacing bolts yesterday.
I've been working on the Flumes SE Face for a while now and everything is done except the Roper chimney.
I got Flames Face done yesterday. One of the bolts was weird. It is off to the side, seemingly in no man's land and the hanger is a Leeper - unlike all the others (SMC Death Hangers). The holds out that direction don't look good and neither does the rock. I will have to go back and climb the route before I make a final decision but right now it looks unnecessary and in a bad spot. It will also be hard to get to if it does need to be replaced. The anchor puts you down to the right of all the bolts and there were no sling knobs to use for directionals - I had a heck of a time replacing the 5th bolt (a quarter inch split shaft). Someone had already replaced the last lead bolt with a carbon steel 5 pc and a Fixe hanger - painted white (looks like it was painted after installation). That bolt cannot be seen from below - it's on the bottom of a large scoop. The old bolt was not completely removed and the hole was not patched.

Here is the last lead bolt. You can see the remains of the old bolt at upper right.





Here are the old bolts I replaced yesterday





Here's the topo for clarification if needed





I'll add this route to the Master List today

[mungeclimber]

I still haven't been on that line.

What's the concern that you need to climb the route for?  Whether to bother with it?  No one will judge if you avoid some and not others. Trust me, you put in a heck of a lot of time already.

When we going climbing?

[JC w KC redux]

I still haven't been on that line.

What's the concern that you need to climb the route for?  Whether to bother with it?  No one will judge if you avoid some and not others. Trust me, you put in a heck of a lot of time already.

When we going climbing?

It actually looks like a decent line. I want to climb it, the Direct finish to Drizzly and the Roper Chimney.
I am also curious to see whether or not that 3rd seemingly off-route bolt feels necessary. It doesn't look like it. Looks like they tried to go that way and then backed off and went straight up instead. There is another line of holds higher up to the left that might have drawn them in. They might have even considered an alternate finish and then never went back - the two FAists never did another route at Pinns.

Come on down and let's get out there