Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread

[mynameismud]

All tossers

[Brad Young]

Looks like we're going to place an order next week for 1,200 Hilti 3 inch by 3/8 inch wedge bolts. I've been placing these for years and love them. Tom Addison highly recommends them too.

Not sure of a price yet, but prices are moving up fast on all stainless steel (thank you beloved dear leader). Somewhere around $3.50 to $4.00 per piece. Who's in for 50 or 100?

[climberdude]

Count me in for 100 of the Hilti's.

[JC w KC redux]

Count me in for 100 of the Hilti's.

Not I said the little red hen. But thanks for the offer 

[JC w KC redux]

All tossers

Bugger 

[clink]

 I suggest that climbers coffee expands to include pastries and F4 giving a talk "The unfake history of Pinnacles climbing, what happened at and away from the Park".

 

[clink]

Mud could do a late night version.
 Don't bring the kids to this.

[JC w KC redux]

Zay came out with me yesterday to learn about rebolting.
He got to replace a star dryvin from start to finish after watching me do one.
I think he got a good education in types of bolts and hangers (information overload).
He spotted a death hanger on the last lead bolt of Sound Chaser. The bolt appeared to be a split shaft but the end threads had been smashed - preventing me from using my nifty extraction tool. I wanted to extract the bolt and then have Zay drill out the hole and replace the bolt.
The old bolt turned out to be a Red Head that could not be completely removed. I drilled a new hole, installed the replacement and patched the old hole. Not quite the additional practice I was hoping for but a good lesson in how things can go wrong and the decisions that have to be made.

Zay getting some hands-on experience





I bet no one knows where this old bolt is

[Brad Young]

Added today

107 – Spaceman Spiff – anchor – J Cook, Isaiah Foulks, 6-14-18

207 – Sound Chaser – bolt 5 replaced – J Cook, I Foulks, 6-14-18

As a side note = the anchor above Spaceman Spiff was a cluster of 3 old star dryvins with SMC death hangers that predated the route. Two of the bolts were replaced in their original holes and the third bolt removed and patched. The replacement anchor can also be used as a substitute or a backup to a second similar cluster of 3 old bolts that point toward Dismemberment Gorge and also predate that route.

Holy wow! That's the first time one of my routes has been rebolted. Feels weird.

[Brad Young]

I don't recognize that old bolt, BTW.

[JC w KC redux]

Holy wow! That's the first time one of my routes has been rebolted. Feels weird.

That's why I put that side note in there. That anchor was there long before you bolted Spaceman no?
I didn't even look at the bolts on Spaceman since you said they were fine.
Those death hangers needed to go but I also wanted to leave some of them as a potential teaching tool.
One of the nails was 3 3/4" - the longest I have ever seen - I found one on The Frog a few years back.

[Brad Young]

That's why I put that side note in there. That anchor was there long before you bolted Spaceman no?
I didn't even look at the bolts on Spaceman since you said they were fine.
Those death hangers needed to go but I also wanted to leave some of them as a potential teaching tool.
One of the nails was 3 3/4" - the longest I have ever seen - I found one on The Frog a few years back.

Oh yeah, all six of the bolts on top of that buttress were old and rusty when we did Spaceman Spiff. And it still feels weird to have one of my FAs re-bolted.

Even though it needed it. Even though I didn't place those old anchor bolts. Even though technically I re-bolted one of my FAs earlier this year (replaced/moved that bolt on Heaven's Gate). Weird.

BTW, while I told you that the lead bolts on Spaceman Spiff look good, I'd still love to have YOU look at them. One out of six needs tightening; the hanger is loose. Also, I have absolutely no idea what kind of bolts those are. I'd have sworn with absolute certainty that we placed long, carbon steel Rawl 5-piece, but they aren't. Some sort of nut-on-the-outside something. Wedge? Probably. I don't think I ever placed a compression bolt at Pinnacles. They look good, little or no rust, and they feel tight. But I'd love to get your reaction to them.

I also though we placed long Rawl, carbon steel 5-piece on Heaven's Gate but my memory was wrong. Those bolts (at least the upper two thirds of them) are the same as whatever we placed on Spaceman Spiff.

At least I remember your name though John. Most of the time.

[F4?]

I never lie.

Plus I drink decaf these days.

[JC w KC redux]

Oh yeah, all six of the bolts on top of that buttress were old and rusty when we did Spaceman Spiff. And it still feels weird to have one of my FAs re-bolted.

Even though it needed it. Even though I didn't place those old anchor bolts. Even though technically I re-bolted one of my FAs earlier this year (replaced/moved that bolt on Heaven's Gate). Weird.

BTW, while I told you that the lead bolts on Spaceman Spiff look good, I'd still love to have YOU look at them. One out of six needs tightening; the hanger is loose. Also, I have absolutely no idea what kind of bolts those are. I'd have sworn with absolute certainty that we placed long, carbon steel Rawl 5-piece, but they aren't. Some sort of nut-on-the-outside something. Wedge? Probably. I don't think I ever placed a compression bolt at Pinnacles. They look good, little or no rust, and they feel tight. But I'd love to get your reaction to them.

I also thought we placed long Rawl, carbon steel 5-piece on Heaven's Gate but my memory was wrong. Those bolts (at least the upper two thirds of them) are the same as whatever we placed on Spaceman Spiff.

At least I remember your name though John. Most of the time.

Don't forget - you rebolted Catatonic Stupor too - well...the anchor at least.
I can definitely take a look at Spaceman.
That button head is on Buzzard Bait.
I am debating whether or not to try and rebolt anything on Moses Springs Wall because of the lack of anchors and I have never seen anyone climbing any of those routes - besides HSMM. Maybe better to discourage traffic on those given their proximity to the trail. I know the guidebook already tells folks to avoid them on the weekend. Even during the week I might want to have a spotter on the trail - at least for the follower - given the increase in potential targets.
The Kammerlander and Beyer routes would of course take priority. 

Three stars from Spaceman and the remains of the Red Head (set bolt) from Sound Chaser

[Brad Young]

Don't forget - you rebolted Catatonic Stupor too - well...the anchor at least.

Well there you go Steve. I forgot all about that one too. OK, so it feels weird to have YOU rebolt a route I FAed 

[Brad Young]

I am debating whether or not to try and rebolt anything on Moses Springs Wall because of the lack of anchors and I have never seen anyone climbing any of those routes - besides HSMM. Maybe better to discourage traffic on those given their proximity to the trail. I know the guidebook already tells folks to avoid them on the weekend. Even during the week I might want to have a spotter on the trail - at least for the follower - given the increase in potential targets.
The Kammerlander and Beyer routes would of course take priority.

I'm not sure that those routes get done much either. Or at all. But that's not a factor that's ever stopped the rebolting process. And right now, Moses Spring Wall probably has the greatest concentration of bad bolts in the whole park.

I think spending your efforts there would be a great public service. And maybe it's not so crowded on Summer weekdays?

[mynameismud]

I agree, The Gulch also sees a lot of climbers, more than any other part of the park.  So odds are someone will venture there.

[Jim]

Looks like we're going to place an order next week for 1,200 Hilti 3 inch by 3/8 inch wedge bolts. I've been placing these for years and love them. Tom Addison highly recommends them too.

Not sure of a price yet, but prices are moving up fast on all stainless steel (thank you beloved dear leader). Somewhere around $3.50 to $4.00 per piece. Who's in for 50 or 100?

I’ll go for a hundred

[Jim]

That button head is on Buzzard Bait.
I am debating whether or not to try and rebolt anything on Moses Springs Wall because of the lack of anchors and I have never seen anyone climbing any of those routes - besides HSMM. Maybe better to discourage traffic on those given their proximity to the trail.

Is that button head on Buzzard Bait the single bolt belay?  If so it was added approximately 10 or so years after the FA and used along with the tied off brush (original anchors) when updating the first quarter inch rawl split shaft bolt/skinny SMC hanger to a 3/8” carbon rawl 5-piece.

[JC w KC redux]

Is that button head on Buzzard Bait the single bolt belay?  If so it was added approximately 10 or so years after the FA and used along with the tied off brush (original anchors) when updating the first quarter inch rawl split shaft bolt/skinny SMC hanger to a 3/8” carbon rawl 5-piece.

Yes it is.

Does that mean you guys updated all the hardware or just the first bolt?

Suggestions on removing the anchor bolt? I have a 3/8 tuning fork and crowbar. I'm guessing that is the only way since button heads are compression bolts.

While we are at it how about we open up a discussion of all these old climbs that need rebolted but have no anchors.
The park has made it clear they do not want us using trees or brush as anchors.

Thoughts?