Author Topic: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread  (Read 5421035 times)

Brad Young

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1140 on: January 19, 2021, 12:25:04 PM »

I heard the Dawsons led this climb on Saturday. I'll put Adagio as first priority when the closures lift.


They did and they LOVED the new bolts. I told them that it was your work (it didn't surprise them).

NOAL

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1141 on: January 19, 2021, 12:31:34 PM »
Very nice!  That route was a prime candidate.

F4?

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1142 on: January 19, 2021, 12:50:44 PM »
Glad to see the tree branch has not grown up against the route.

Looks like it’s been deterred.

New bolts are nice.
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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1143 on: January 19, 2021, 01:27:42 PM »
They did and they LOVED the new bolts. I told them that it was your work (it didn't surprise them).

The drill dust and the bolts still had that new car smell.  :idea: :arf:

Very nice!  That route was a prime candidate.

Thanks dude. That crux bolt was scary!

Glad to see the tree branch has not grown up against the route.

That tree may be nearing the end of life stages.
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Brad Young

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1144 on: January 19, 2021, 02:30:02 PM »

That tree may be nearing the end of life stages.


Aren't we all.

JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1145 on: January 22, 2021, 02:49:15 PM »

I replaced the lead bolt shared by Lonesome Bolt and Sheepish on Wednesday.
The old bolt was a 3/8 split shaft with a stainless SMC hanger.
There was a noticeable crack emanating from the bolt hole and the bolt was crooked and at a significant down angle.
The bolt came loose and wiggled out with a half turn of the wrench on my puller tool (scary).

The surface chunked off when the bolt came out and I was forced to carve down at least an inch to keep the original bolt location.
I surveyed all the surrounding rock but was unable to find an alternate spot that was any better in terms of rock quality and angle of the surface. This was an extremely work intensive bolt to replace. I lost most of the hole carving down, so I was able to adjust the angle quite a bit (still slightly down). 


Here is the old bolt (cratered, crooked, fractured, serious down angle)





and the replacement





The surfacing isn't quite perfect but it is close. I'm thinking of taking up sculpting (NOT!).





Not a lot to work with here. The rock is absolutely loaded with chunks of all sizes and covered with scabs. Uncooperative as he!!


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waldo

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1146 on: January 23, 2021, 06:29:55 AM »
Excellent work on Buicks! For what it's worth, I fell on Adagio's upper bolt thirty years ago. It held.

JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1147 on: January 23, 2021, 07:35:34 AM »
Excellent work on Buicks! For what it's worth, I fell on Adagio's upper bolt thirty years ago. It held.

Thanks Bob.
The last two bolts on Adagio are 5 piece with Metolius hangers.
I won't be replacing those.
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waldo

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1148 on: January 23, 2021, 09:58:04 AM »
Thanks Bob.
The last two bolts on Adagio are 5 piece with Metolius hangers.
I won't be replacing those.

Holmgren will be glad to hear it!

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1149 on: January 23, 2021, 10:29:10 AM »
Holmgren will be glad to hear it!

Sorry Bob - you're thinking of the next route to the left with the horrendously long name.
That one only has two bolts (star dryvins?).
It likely does need the bolts replaced but I did not look at it this year.
I'll have to recheck it when the closures lift.
Adagio is Steve Wong and others FA.
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waldo

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1150 on: January 23, 2021, 04:02:42 PM »
Oops, you're right. Most of the small holds at the top weren't meant to stick around long, as I remember.

Gavin

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1151 on: January 27, 2021, 01:35:03 PM »
Beautiful work, JC. Your attention to detail and your mastery of the craft is very clear. Kudos to you!

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1152 on: January 27, 2021, 02:17:05 PM »
Beautiful work, JC. Your attention to detail and your mastery of the craft is very clear. Kudos to you!

Thanks Gavin. That bolt was like a Final Exam for rebolters  :crazy:
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JC w KC redux

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1153 on: April 19, 2021, 04:28:57 PM »

Just wanted to give a shout out to Brad.

He has been picking away at replacing old bolts on days when he is without a partner and revisiting areas to work on the next edition of the guidebook.

I have not been able to get out and don't know when I will again - so I really appreciate that work.

Thanks dude.
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nateb

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1154 on: April 04, 2022, 08:23:48 PM »
Hi, I know this is a super old thread but had a question. I climbed Feather Canyon last Dec after meeting brad in parking lot, hi brad! I was the curly haired young kid climbing with a friend. He gave us some extra beta because it was our first time. Really enjoyed the route, I think it takes a really great line up. But I think there's some really dangerous elements to that climb. For example the tree at the top of pitch 4 was almost uprooted, there's virtually no anchor at the top of pitch 3, and there's nothing on pitch 6, or pitch one at all.  And the down climb pitch is extremely exposed and there should be something to protect the follower. When I did the route I expected gear placements where there wasn't bolts but there just wasn't anything except for I think a #1 on pitch 1 and 6. Is it in the plans to add some anchors to this climb, and bolts on the unprotected pitches? I'd love to help with rebolting efforts, and especially help on this route to help bring this climb into the modern climbing world. I just think it's simply not safe or responsible to have a nine pitch route in the guidebook that's basically impossible to retreat from if something were to go wrong mid route. If somebody got hurt you'd have to rig a rescue on one of those fist wide trees, or rap off of them? And some places like pitch 7 where you couldn't retreat at all. I'd love to hear if there's going to be more anchors because I would do the climb much more often if so. I really liked it, but I don't feel comfortable recommending it or climbing it often because it's just not that safe, and there's no gear placements either. Almost a solo. Thanks, looking forward to hearing back.

Brad Young

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1155 on: April 04, 2022, 09:00:24 PM »
Excellent first post nateb.

It runs on a little though?

I'd separate your questions/comments into three categories:

1. Trees that used to provide secure end-of-pitch anchors have died or are dying and there are no longer effective as anchors;

2. The route lacks lead protection, and, in your view, some should be added;

3. The route is dangerous.

It's way too late to write and post extensive answers, but are you OK with the way I've categorized the issues you want to discuss?

I'll make time tomorrow to respond in detail. My short answers though are:

1. Yes, I agree;

2. Nope, not ever; if adding bolts to routes ever becomes acceptable the sport of climbing will die;

3. Danger is inherent in climbing and not all routes are or will be safe.

Good night for now.



mynameismud

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1156 on: April 04, 2022, 09:49:23 PM »
Typically, bolts are only added to routes by the individual that put up the route.  Classic lines are rarely have additional bolts added.  Old routes tend to have fewer bolts even though they had much worse gear. 
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mungeclimber

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1157 on: April 04, 2022, 10:22:45 PM »
What Brad said.

Retrobolting lead protection bolts is unacceptable, without express permission of the FA'ists. (obligatory statement about how retro is not rebolting)

A failed tree anchor, if no other option, invites replacement with a sufficient anchor. In fact, for net new lines I prefer bolts to trees as inevitably my lines are classics and the tree will get abused. :)

Is the rating given a proper protection grade in the guidebook? Would a competent leader 'at the grade' find it to be "R" or "X" by definition of those grades?

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Brad Young

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1158 on: April 05, 2022, 06:55:01 AM »
Hey nateb, I called your first post excellent and I meant it. A real climber raising issues that they genuinely wonder about. And doing so politely.

Unheard of and nicely done!

Brad Young

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Re: Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread
« Reply #1159 on: April 05, 2022, 06:55:37 AM »
It seems easier to deal with your questions one at a time. And easiest to start with this one:

2. The route lacks lead protection, and, in your view, some should be added.

I think you specifically asked if or when "someone" would add bolts to this routes in order to make it "safe."

But yeah, Mr Mud and Munge are right. One of the longest-held rules in climbing is no adding bolts to routes that other people put up.

This might seem like an arbitrary rule and one that can lead to "unsafe" climbs. But appearances can be deceiving. This rule, this strong tenet of climbing, instead preserves adventure in the sport and prevents what would otherwise become total chaos.

In a series of posts I'll explain the sentence above.