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Author Topic: GriGri vs ATC  (Read 3315 times)
JC w KC redux
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« on: May 15, 2012, 07:04:40 AM »

There seems to be some argument about which is safer/better - GriGri or ATC. I have almost always used an ATC. When I first started climbing I used a figure 8. I never had anyone suggest a GriGri - even leaders I used to follow that were guide certified. What is the consensus?
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Brad Young
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 07:07:08 AM »

Consensus is that the best belay device is the belayer's engaged brain.

Any dumb shit can drop a climber using any belay system.
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JC w KC redux
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 07:51:04 AM »

Consensus is that the best belay device is the belayer's engaged brain.

Any dumb shit can drop a climber using any belay system.

early morning belly laugh!
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waldo
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 08:44:16 AM »

But with a GriGri you can let them fall slower and enjoy it more.
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mungeclimber
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:45:01 AM »

safer will depend on the application

for long aid sessions, gri.
for total noob, gri, but does not excuse proper instruction of belaying.
for faster pay out of rope, atc style, or cinch.

I started on hip belays, but quickly realized the value of a figure 8.
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mynameismud
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 08:53:33 AM »

ATC for normal climbing.

GriGri for walls or 24 hour climbing.  Nice to have the auto lock when your nodding off to sleep for short periods of time.
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CruxLuv
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 09:13:28 AM »

But with a GriGri you can let them fall slower and enjoy it more.

Didn't know you had a sinister side.   Evil
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Aaron McDonald
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 09:49:58 AM »

Not that I know anything, but I like the GriGri for top belaying multi-pitch climbs when I can setup a master point. Seems like I can take up slack more quickly than with an ATC.
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kyqueener
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 10:19:44 AM »

Stoners should always use Gri-Gri's.








Just sayin'
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waldo
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 10:49:27 AM »

I started on hip belays, but quickly realized the value of a figure 8.

Me, too, Munge.  I switched to a figure 8 after my biggest partner (220+) actually fell while I was belaying him.  Ouch.
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cobbledik
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 10:51:06 AM »

Grigri on the wall because the leader can shortfix and start the next pitch on self-belay while the second cleans.

For longer multipitch I go back and forth between the Cinch and the ATC Guide for top belay. I tend to climb with a skinny tagline if it will require double ropes to rap and then I'll use the cinch to do the rap off the single line with a biner block at the chains/raplinks

For noobs, I put them on an autolock at first with constant surveillance to correct issues but convert them to atc's as soon as I'm comfortable with them. Especially if they're learning to lead belay since the shock of how much different the yank up is compared to the gym makes me think that they're more likely to freak out the first few times they experience rope through biners rather than the normal doublewrap around a fat drum belay system at most gyms.

- - -
The safety issue is a strawman. The devices are not the danger, the way a climber perceives how to use the device and treat belaying that's a danger.

When people use the ATC va Grigri safty argument, what they're actually saying is "I'm afraid so I pay attention" vs "I'm not as afraid so I immediately stop paying attention"

explain the importance of belaying no matter the system used and you're fine. Or maybe if you need to put a grigri in someone's hands because you don't trust them to focus on keeping you alive, then just put the grigri on your own harness, build a bottom anchor, attach your dumbass simpleton belayer to the anchor (using his weight for a softer catch like a haulbag because that's all he sounds like he's worth), and then roped solo the route.
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 11:16:10 AM »

Cinch rocks for long belays. Sucks for rapping.

If done right, the leader pulls the rope through the device.

Let's the belayer take a nap...(what else is there to do?).
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cobbledik
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2012, 11:24:08 AM »

I've yet to get a new grigri2 and probably would switch from cinch to that based upon the size and the weigh similarities. But whooo knows.
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MUCCI
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2012, 03:10:58 PM »

Application, as others have said, is the determining factor.

Gri2 thoughts:

I have used mine quite a bit for wall work.  Don't like the action compared to the original.  Rope size is more of an issue with the 2 as well.

Wet rope sections make u think yet gonna die, moreso than the original.

Now for regular  cragging it seems okay/better due to its size.
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skully
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 05:05:34 PM »

I checked out the Gri2 and I don't like it so much either, compared with the original.
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 09:25:01 PM »

Guess there's not much sense in lamenting over the original vs the 2 because no one has seems to have the original for sale anymore...bummer for me!
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Atomizer
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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2012, 09:57:45 PM »

Gri gri all the way! You can drop a rock, kill your belayer, and still be on belay. This can be a big concern at the Pinns. And IMHO i think the GRI2 is vastly improved in all categories, but I haven't climbed The Captain with it yet so the jury is still out on the Short Fixing ability, which is my biggest concern.
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JC w KC redux
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2012, 06:42:02 AM »

Grigri on the wall
For longer multipitch I go back and forth between the Cinch and the ATC Guide for top belay.
For noobs, I put them on an autolock at first
"I'm not as afraid so I immediately stop paying attention"

great post
if someone can't be bothered to pay attention they're not on my rope
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cobbledik
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2012, 01:23:59 PM »

Guess there's not much sense in lamenting over the original vs the 2 because no one has seems to have the original for sale anymore...bummer for me!
Old Style GriGris on Ebay everyday. Usually go for around $65
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JC w KC redux
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2012, 02:31:56 PM »

Old Style GriGris on Ebay everyday. Usually go for around $65

funny b/c i thought of that after i posted - i'll check it out since almost everybody seems to like that one better
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 02:44:47 PM »

Cinch rocks...grigri is so 90's
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cobbledik
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 04:33:26 PM »

http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/51/Hang_Em_High_Final.pdf worth reading even if it applies to first generation cinches

I use my cinch a lot but always have the images of the cinch failing at such lower catastrophic levels from the above report in my head. With the sometimes, less than dynamic self-belay you may be looking at when soloing/shortfixing combined with a pitch that starts out with hooking makes me think twice.

does it almost ever apply? no. but as my students are oft to say in response to anything i ever say to question the logic of their points of view, "yeah, but still."
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Gavin
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 07:14:40 AM »

I have and use both an ATC and a GriGri2, also still have a GriGri... Depending on the application both device types are great to have. My wife uses a Cinch but I always found that a bit too small and cramped in my hands.

I agree that the GriGri2 is initially a bit harder to use than the GriGri... It locks up more aggressively than the GriGri, which safety-wise I suppose is a good thing, but it makes it harder to maintain a smooth lower. The ATC feels more intuitive for lead belays but I've figured out how to make the GriGri work effectively. The GriGri is great for me a I do a lot of solo TR at Pinnacles and is great for setting up draws on routes with directional issues.
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JC w KC redux
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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2012, 06:29:31 AM »

I have and use both an ATC and a GriGri2

we'll have and start using both soon!
thanks for all the feedback everybody!!
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