Author Topic: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns  (Read 3118567 times)

Atomizer

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Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« on: June 25, 2012, 07:58:38 PM »
The day of Rap/Ground-up bolting is here whether we like it or not. The back of the Monolith has become the testing ground for a new age of Pinnacles bolting. First with what I believe was a very valiant effort at a new style of Pinnacles FA by Derek and Karl on West of the Sun. Now I have been told that the unfinished projects on the back of the Monolith have been completed, with bolts placed on rappell. Apparently the right side route is 5.13a and called Glow Worm. The other one is yet to be completed. These long abandoned projects were intended as ground up routes by the area visionary Tom Davis.

I'm not sure how I feel about these projects being completed in a style which I don't practice. I am feeling hate and potential climbing pleasure at the same, and as much as it pains me to learn of these actions, I could be stoked to climb these routes... maybe more than the few rap bolted routes at Pinnacles that I do enjoy. But for now I feel like the stone has been violated with an action that speaks of disrespect for the area traditions and community. When Mark and I did the first ascent of Miscegenation last year ground up and on lead, we were praised for being young and not being dumb. The current routes in question make me question the first ascent parties intention, an intention of disrespect that also speaks a voice that may not be quieted, that may soon rule this world. Will rap bolting proliferate? This is a world of instant gratification were safety and security is now meant to be a part of life

But what do you do? We don't own this stone. As much as we would like to possess it, we are just transient here, and what makes our traditional voice any more valid then that of people that would turn Pinnacles into an outdoor gym if they, just felt like it?

I am personally effected by this because Tom Davis recently gave the go ahead to Mittens and I to go up those lines and finish them. And we intended to complete them in a style that would make Tom proud. But now things are different. And I asked Tom about whether he cared about this rap bolting, and he was indifferent about the line that is on the left. Plus he didn't seem to care about it being rap bolted, which caught me way off guard. But Tom didn't feel the same about the right side route. He has been training the last year to do that route. He just sent Miscegenation and is looking really strong and psyched with his eyes on this project that has been rap bolted now.

But the absence of Tom on those projects for 20 years speaks a lot. To the unprivileged eye they seem abandoned, and I'm not surprised this has happened. I spoke to K-Man and he says to chop these routes. But some voice in my head says "you're just going to put the bolts back in so why chop them?" And just for a note, Sharma sent both those routes already on TR 15 years ago.

Edit: Does it make a difference if the rap bolter was woman?

Brad Young

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 09:00:47 PM »

1. This is a world of instant gratification where safety and security is now meant to be a part of life

2. But what do you do? We don't own this stone. As much as we would like to possess it, we are just transient here, and what makes our traditional voice any more valid then that of people that would turn Pinnacles into an outdoor gym if they, just felt like it?

3. Edit: Does it make a difference if the rap bolter was woman?


Responses to a few of your points:

1. Yes, you're right. And ego too. Her (and his) desires are more important to her (them) than what the great majority of Pinns climbers think and feel. It's happened before.

2. No-one owns the stone. We can't stop her because she has the right to do as she pleases in this regard. But coins have two sides. Others also have the right to do as they please. If she is free to do what she wants, others are free to do as they want. If/when the bolts disappear is that a greater violation than when they appeared?

3. Of course not. Only the quality of the person (or lack thereof) should be in question.

Also: Although I've counted him as a friend for many, many years, and I truly like and admire him, I did not respond well to his phone call telling me about this. Not well at all.

I intend to speak my mind on this subject. I will listen politely, and argue. I may take action, or encourage others to do so (it's not even Pinnacles season for god sake).

Finally, although I am quite unhappy about this event (I am being very diplomatic here - it's the professional in me coming out), I will also do my damnedest not to make personal attacks just because someone has committed what I think is an egomaniacal atrocity. I will do my best in this regard, although the above sentence in and of itself shows that I will not be/am not perfect. I likewise suggest that no personal attacks should start against people I care about, or against me because of this issue. No such attacks either in person, or on any part of the internet. I suggest this very, very strongly.

CruxLuv

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 09:12:30 PM »
There is way more to this than I will probably ever know and at my tender climbing age, I truly have nothing to contribute other than my observations.

Adam - eloquent and thoughtful as always.

No, we don't own the stone but we can try to be guardians of them and of tradition.

I can only imagine these are very similar arguments waged at the time sport routes were popping up.  Right or wrong.  Ground up vs rap down.  Sport vs trad.

I am truly sorry you and Mittens were not able to complete Tom's route with his blessing and even more so that he will not be able to finish the right side.

And, for what it's worth, being a dumb ass is not gender specific.  Ego does as ego is.
The "best" climber is the one having the most fun.

JC w KC redux

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 07:49:17 AM »
chop it!
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mungeclimber

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 08:27:21 AM »
Did Derek and Karl's route act as a justification?
Was this new line topped down only after a failed ground up effort?
Does the top downer know about the history and prevailing ethic?
Would an engagement effort make a difference?
If we remove the bolts on this one, will we remove all the other top down routes?


Just a few of the questions I have.

I am not opposed to anyone removing top down bolts at Pinns.

Cleaning up Maestri's stuff may have opened up the possibility of a new ground up effort, no?

Whether history is ground up or top down, the routes can be created anew, though the history remains.


On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

MUCCI

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 01:47:20 PM »
Some statements from a discussion this spring:

I believe Karl is helping define the new way of Pinnacles routing

Problem I have is that tactic was justified to the masses for the end product. The same way the next route placed on rappel will be pimped to us.

I don't think there should be ANY concern for the top down approach at pinns.

Now there is.

This falls intimately close to drilling on others routes.  Both have shown thier faces as of late.

When opposition for the  "Outsiders" starts, they can use the 14 year pinnacles veteran's decision to rap bolt as an example of why it's "Okay".   Preserving the rock is #1 right?

MUCCI

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
HAHAHAH!!!!

This is just the start, and we have Karl and Derek to thank for opening the door.

And Bellizzi for being the head cheerleader on FB.


No matter how you sugar coat it, shit still stinks.


Removing the bolts from the monolith is going to be much easier than sending those projects again, and again, and again.

This is gonna be thug, hope you rap bolters are ready.

 

Aaron McDonald

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 01:59:45 PM »
I think that the ground up ethic is a long established tradition at Pinnacles and should remain.  Traditions do change and new climbers come into the mix with challenging  ideas, however this rock is a finite resource and should be treated as such. Preservation of the history and tradition is mandatory and new standards of ethics should adopted slowly and with much debate.  Maybe in certain cases where this bottom up ethic cannot be followed we should accept that the rock just wins. It may change in the future, but today the rock wins.  If you feel that strongly about completing the route then more power to you, please feel free to develop the climbing style or the technology that will allow you to complete the route within the spirit of our ethic. What is wrong with the rock winning? We are only visitors and we are bolting for future generations of climbers.

waldo

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 05:06:01 PM »
Jack Holmgren and I attempted to add a third pitch to Lava Falls.  Jack put in the first bolt from stance.  I got past it, but I could not achieve balance enough to drill.  He did and he placed yet another star.  We went back several times.  The last time, a late September afternoon, hangs in my memory.  Jack was as fit and committed as ever I've known him.  He went eight or ten feet beyond the second bolt.  He achieved an amazing, stemmed out stance, but he couldn't begin to drill. He came down and we never went back. 

How you climb is far more important and memorable than what you finally get up - in whatever fashion.  Rappel bolted routes just don't matter.

Brad Young

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 05:28:15 PM »

How you climb is far more important and memorable than what you finally get up - in whatever fashion.


Change a few words and you've got a philosophy to live your life by.


CruxLuv

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 06:08:21 PM »
What is wrong with the rock winning? 

Not a damn thing.  It keeps us humble and hungry.
The "best" climber is the one having the most fun.

F4?

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 08:58:33 PM »
So much for enjoying a day of climbing...getting drunk and passing out by the campfire??? Way too much philosphy....


Waldo, when was the last time you 2x were up on the 3rd pitch of lava? Last winter I swear I saw another bolt. Estimated rating???
I'm not worthy.

mungeclimber

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 06:07:04 AM »
well said Waldo
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

JC w KC redux

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 08:58:02 AM »
not sure how to find this on the site but it is good.

http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=862.0;wap2
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waldo

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 01:59:34 PM »
1991 was when Jack and I were last up there, I believe.  I recall only two bolts, but I could be in error.  Difficulty?  Jack was able to stop in the middle of a 10c/10d move and drill.  He might get in only six or seven hammer taps before yielding the stance. 
That route on the NW corner of Gargoyle is a good example. He was a fierce, meticulous downclimber.  He went up and down from the crux bolt forty or more times.  It took him almost four hours to get the hole drilled.  He was knackered when the bolt went in.  Sam stormed past it to the summit, but Jack's skill got us the climb.
Up on the 3rd pitch of Lava, Jack couldn't hold a position for more than a couple of seconds.  I'd guess it was 11+.
Hey, beer is philosophy.

cobbledik

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 06:19:56 PM »
Agree with Mucci. Things need to get thug. I'm nothing but armchair though as long as I'm running my summer camp until Aug.

mungeclimber

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 06:34:27 PM »
patching technique should be impeccable. Use similar colored gravel and rock dust as the stone being patched.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

Atomizer

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 08:24:31 PM »
Anybody know what type of bolts they used?

F4?

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2012, 08:48:43 PM »
Well waldo I swear another on is in there. I'll have to get back in shape and go up there and take some pictures.

I knew I shouldda suckered Mr Mud into giving it a go when we were up there years ago.

Beer is good.

If wanting to remove bolts...go do some anchor replacement....
I'm not worthy.

Atomizer

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Re: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 08:51:24 PM »
Who said I was removing bolts... I'm just going to smash them down. That is the preferred method right?