Author Topic: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns (Read 3118577 times)

mynameismud · « **Reply #80 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:20:16 PM »

The point is rap bolters absolutely have to have rap bolting everywhere.

Traditional climbing areas are verboten.

Quote from: Jim Thornburg on July 09, 2012, 12:54:59 PM

I don't think they have done that at the Pinnacles.

I can think of lots of areas where the two styles coexist, but none where GU climbers are pushed out, harassed or forbidden. Do you know some areas like this?

cobbledik · « **Reply #81 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:26:47 PM »

Quote from: Jim Thornburg on July 09, 2012, 12:54:59 PM

I can think of lots of areas where the two styles coexist, but none where GU climbers are pushed out, harassed or forbidden.

The fallacy in this argument is saying that the physical GU FAist would be pushed out (to another crag or whathaveyou)

But if GU is partly (or wholly) about preserving a limited recourse, then the use of rap bolting effectively denies the ability of GU philosophy to preserve. In that way, the GU FAist are not pushed out, but by "pushing out" the limited resources, the effect is the same.

mungeclimber · « **Reply #82 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:40:36 PM »

Quote from: Jim Thornburg on July 09, 2012, 12:54:59 PM

I don't think they have done that at the Pinnacles.

I can think of lots of areas where the two styles coexist, but none where GU climbers are pushed out, harassed or forbidden. Do you know some areas like this?

I can't think of areas where GU climbers are "pushed" out bodily, but their opportunities for quality lines are diminished by the rapidity of which top down routes go in (mostly I'm thinking of the special case of motorized-allowed areas).

mynameismud · « **Reply #83 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:11:14 PM »

rap is easier whether using a hand drill or motorized drill. No thought is needed to rap bolt, a person just raps in scrubs and bolts. Whole different game with going ground up. Look at Richards rap bolted 13. No way that happens with a ground up ascent.

F4? · « **Reply #84 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:36:19 PM »

Quote

rap is easier whether using a hand drill or motorized drill. No thought is needed to rap bolt, a person just raps in scrubs and bolts. Whole different game with going ground up. Look at Richards rap bolted 13. No way that happens with a ground up ascent.

Yer being funny right??? It takes still to setup top down, just the same as going up. Either way the route can get screwed.

Come on out to the E-Front and I can teach you some tricks....

In South Africa, there are examples of both the topdown and ground up....Montague has routes that are top down....and it's a known sport area. Trad climbing isn't allowed!!

Then there's Table Mtn...where NO bolts are used for pro.

mynameismud · « **Reply #85 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:11:54 PM »

It takes skill or at least thought to put up a good route using either approach. But to just put up a route it is way easier on rap. The only skill that is necessary to rap bolt is the ability to build an anchor.

skully · « **Reply #86 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:29:35 PM »

Yer gonna die fer sure, though. Remember that, anyway...!!!

karl · « **Reply #87 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:26:36 PM »

I haven't read this site in some time, but just checked in and saw this thread. Anyway, I want to clarify what Chris B. distorted about "West of Sun". I have clearly stated this previously here http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=1537.msg16800#msg16800, but here is the a quick summary.

The first 10 bolts were placed ground up. The next bolt would have only been possible by creating a bolt ladder, so after longer deliberation, we opted to rap in. We placed only four bolts on rappel. Then, over the next few days, we placed the last three bolts on lead.

I know that many of you could care less, but I didn't like the way Chris made it seem like we just put in a few bolts, threw in the towel and rap bolted the rest.

F4? · « **Reply #88 on:** July 27, 2012, 10:42:23 AM »

We still love yah!

mynameismud · « **Reply #89 on:** July 27, 2012, 07:50:20 PM »

I think it is good that you clarified.

Brad Young · « **Reply #90 on:** July 27, 2012, 07:59:50 PM »

Those of us who care already knew what had happened. Chris got a little careless with his facts.

mungeclimber · « **Reply #91 on:** July 28, 2012, 07:40:29 PM »

I had forgotton just how many bolts total were put in GU. thx

Atomizer · « **Reply #92 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:59:46 AM »

Karl,
Chris is just hawking the rap bolt propaganda... of course he skews the facts.
My view is changing after reading the new Alpinist about the Cerro Torre controversy.
May be the bolts should just be left in... if they aren't already gone.

mungeclimber · « **Reply #93 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:03:55 PM »

Quote from: Atomizer on July 31, 2012, 10:59:46 AM

Karl,
Chris is just hawking the rap bolt propaganda... of course he skews the facts.
My view is changing after reading the new Alpinist about the Cerro Torre controversy.
May be the bolts should just be left in... if they aren't already gone.

These aren't historical artifact climbs. The point is to prevent them from becoming that, else an Antiquities like approach to artifacts would mean acceptance.

Much like the NPS doesn't want us to throw out garbage from the 20s when found on a hillside, but they sure don't want everyone leaving their pilsner cans out in the meadows just so others can find them in another 100 years or so.

Atomizer · « **Reply #94 on:** August 07, 2012, 01:19:33 PM »

The antiquities act also covers historical culture and practices. Yosemite recently chopped down lots of trees to restore the views at major viewpoints back to the 1930's standard. The called that a "historic view shed"

I know that people don't normally debate the Antiquities Act in this manner but from my experience working in Yosemite I can tell you that there is relevance to my arguement if debated in a legal forum.

F4? · « **Reply #95 on:** August 07, 2012, 08:04:35 PM »

Then we go back to knickers, hemp ropes and heavy boots.
And hip belays.

Atomizer · « **Reply #96 on:** August 08, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »

What F4 you dont use that stuff at the pinns already?

kylequeener · « **Reply #97 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:38:35 PM »

Sheesh, I better hurry up and grid bolt the back of the Monolith before all these rap bolters beat me to it. Pretty soon there will be nothing left back there. Does anyone have some extra chain for the fixed draws? What's the standard distance between bolts? Six feet or so? Anyone know how many square feet is back there? I want to make sure I have enough bolts and drill bits before I get started. Imagine all the link ups and traverses there will be!

This is going to make rap bolting look so antiquated!

Everyone will love me and my routes!

I'll let you know you all know when my PayPal account is up so I can receive your donations for hardware and my invested time.

Edit: Atomizer, thanks for bringing this up again. I've seen the chalk over there while on Ranger Bolts but didn't know it was completed. I also didn't know about Miscegenation so I'll have to go do it this week. Hopefully you're not into sandbagging grades.

F4? · « **Reply #98 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:01:39 PM »

Quote

What F4 you dont use that stuff at the pinns already?

Have you ever used Mr Muds rope for a TR...I think it was hemp or old enough..

I'll have to give squiddo a hip belay sometimes. Just for fun.

waldo · « **Reply #99 on:** August 18, 2012, 07:11:55 PM »

My knickers are in a trunk in the garage. They no longer fit.

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Author Topic: Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns (Read 3118577 times)