Rap/Ground-up bolting at the Pinns

[mungeclimber]

The goal of putting up "Good" routes is laudable, but 'good' is too hard of a goal to me. It is a passion for me. Some are good, some aren't. My experience and those of my friends are tantamount, but with that said the ground up principle of Robbins is the guiding principle. It didn't dictate specifics, i.e. required free stance. Free does not always trump aid as a principle and thus can't be universally appealed to. Yes, I like free. I like aid too. So I go GU, with aid trickery shenanigans and have the most fun possible at a game that is one of many.

Top down unfortunately is incompatible with trying to preserve the limited resource at an area that has agreed to preserve the ground up ethic.

There isn't an absolute. It's just an interested community wanting to preserve one FINAL area in California (Yosemite is no longer a bastion of ethics). 

[cobbledik]

(Yosemite is no longer a bastion of ethics). 

No, it is def not.

[clink]

but I was unaware that there was a strong or vocal (since those two are not always one and the same) opinion of hooks being an unacceptable method of GU by the Pinnacles community.

 Mostly special needs, microcosm particle of the locals. Still alive and kicking and infecting the less than normal.

 Hooking is a legit GU means at Pinns.

Top down unfortunately is incompatible with trying to preserve the limited resource at an area that has agreed to preserve the ground up ethic.

There isn't an absolute. It's just an interested community wanting to preserve one FINAL area in California (Yosemite is no longer a bastion of ethics).

In the words of the Invisible Man "Just to be clear"
Yes

[Aaron McDonald]

 Hooking is a legit GU means at Pinns.

CLINK!

Since when?? Why did you pound all of my hooks flat when we did our first FA at Pinns?

[Aaron McDonald]

Quote
One thing I will agree with you on is that the social atmosphere of the Pinnacles blows...

I know I have only been climbing for a couple of years but where is all this social blowing occurring? How come I  never get invited to these things?

[mynameismud]

I will try and start spending more time down there.  Just is not the same without me.

[mungeclimber]

social "blowing"?

Aaron, what, if I may pry, are you referring to?

[F4?]

Well ground up or top down or 1/2 down, then up and to the side.....what matters is the end product.
To me it's about creating something that folks will enjoy.

Now, I am thankful that WetKiss was stolen from Mr. Mud. Evidently, he was going from the bottom up on natural gear...while others were going from the top (gulp) down....Yikes!

If it had been done from the bottom on natural gear I would not have a route to look cool on. I'd be scared doing them mantels with a cam behind a flake.

[JC w KC redux]

To me it's about creating something that folks will enjoy.

Wow - I wish other people had kept that in mind over the years. I might not have PTPD.

[Brad Young]

I will try and start spending more time down there.  Just is not the same without me.

Truer words were never spoken.

[F4?]

I will try and start spending more time down there.  Just is not the same without me.

Pick me up on the way down. I can belay Mud Worm.

[mynameismud]

wet kiss was bolted ground up

[F4?]

wet kiss was bolted ground up

At least it was bolted!

[mungeclimber]

one of the bolts on Wet Kiss was added after the fact, no?



"creating something that folks will enjoy"

I really cringe at this statement when it becomes pervasive either for a person or group or area.

I don't want all routes to be super well protected, and thus more than likely not enjoyable.

Some routes shouldn't be enjoyed, but should be suffered through.

And I don't want all routes to be death routes. I'm not afraid of adding steel. Though, all retrobolts approved by the FAist, should be PINK hangers.

[mynameismud]

I think one was added post completion.

Pink for retro, I like it. 

[F4?]

yup and you will enjoy Los Banditos....modest 5.9

[JC w KC redux]

Some routes shouldn't be enjoyed, but should be suffered through.
And I don't want all routes to be death routes. I'm not afraid of adding steel. Though, all retrobolts approved by the FAist, should be PINK hangers.

This is funny dude.

[mungeclimber]

well, not all of it was meant to be funny.

[MUCCI]

The feeling was mutual among fs climbers, watching routes go up in a week that would have been multi month(or year) long projects by free stance "fair means" ethics.

Who were the other "free stance" climbers that expressed this mentality Clink?  At pinnacles specifically?

I know guys like higgins, Hensel, McCabe are known for primarily stance drilling around California.

I do feel that equating hooking to rap bolting is tough sell, but can see the logic in the "time" reference.  Few at the far end of FA spectrum would consider such tactics as infringing the "usable resource", as most hooking seen on FA's are in places most cannot drill.

Of course there are exceptions and examples.

However, we are still talking about a ground up style, not "installing" on the way down, 2 routes a day, etc...

[mungeclimber]

Mucci has done two routes a day pace, ground up. NO KIT!


sorry, I digress.