Author Topic: Aid climbing gear (Read 46876 times)

Aaron McDonald · « **on:** July 10, 2012, 04:05:12 PM »

I am interested doing some aid climbing mixed with free climbing. The big walls are calling. Anyone have recommendations on aiders, daisy chains, and ascenders?

cobbledik · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:01:27 PM »

Depends upon the ratio of aid to free you're aiming for

More aid than free =
Yates speed ladders are amazing
Yates Adjustable Daisies
I like Bdel Ascenders but they take a bit of getting used to and need to be used a certain way to prevent slipping on the rope, otherwise CMI ultracenders are nice and light.
Yates Shield harness is ultra and surprisingly allows for a lot of movement for a wide/heavy aid harness. cush

More free than aid
I don't do that.

Atomizer · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:32:02 PM »

I use the Petzl ascenders. A little more compact, lighter, and easier to use. Better suited to aid and free missions or light and fast.

Pretty much everything that Yates makes is rad!

The Speed Ladders are great for aid intensive routes, but tend to really get in the way when trying to go from aid to free. I can't tell you how many times ive had those things get caught on gear or stuck in the crack below at the worst moment. I wouldn't carry them on something like a Half Dome in Day mission. Traditional style etriers are better for this but have drawbacks with how they get tangled and twisted, which leads to slower more insecure aiding.

The Yates adjustable daisy is an amazing tool. Some folks use one for each aider. The really great feature of these over any other brand daisy is that you can release them under weight. I have one with a fifi hook on it that is awesome for leading and cleaning. Ask more if you want to know why.

I also vote for the Shield Harness. Burly and comfortable, but not the best for speed climbing or free climbing. I feel a little more encumbered by it, but You can hang for hours in it at hanging belays and still be able to use your legs when its time to roll again.

I use my normal BD Focus harness for half dome like routes and the shield for steeper routes.

Brad Young · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:50:04 PM »

When I was your age, young man, we just took 21 feet of one-inch flat webbing and tied it into aiders. Hell, I did my first Grade Five aid wall and my first two El Cap routes with tied aiders.

And I walked to the base of each route too, two miles in the snow, uphill each direction, carrying a canvas haul bag with no real backpack rig, and I've slept in a one point hammock, thereby enduring total misery for a whole night on several occasions, and, in the early days I didn't even have a cell phone to take, and no supertopos either, and peckers, well they weren't climbing gear, that's for sure, and Fosters came in big steel cans that were perfectly indestructible in a haul bag, and ropes were 50 meters, and my harness was a Chouinard sewn unit made of a single piece of two-inch flat webbing, and did I mention the snow? Both ways.

Ah, better listen to the young guys that post here.

CruxLuv · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:22:29 PM »

Can't believe it's taken you this long, Aaron. Thought you'd have stocked up as soon as we got back from our trip.

And Brad...just awesomeness. Thanks for the LOL.

cobbledik · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:37:50 PM »

http://www.climbing.com/print/techtips/ttaid216/

You can make homemade daisy chains this way too. I have some that I made. They're cool, but I don't really use them for anything but conversation.

F4? · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2012, 08:51:13 PM »

I'd just buy a pair of aiders and be done with it.

Brad Young · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2012, 09:56:18 PM »

Oh, and you'll need a stuffed dolphin and a coconut:

Aaron McDonald · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2012, 08:23:02 AM »

Is that a European or African coconut?

Aaron McDonald · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2012, 08:40:24 AM »

Thanks everyone for all the great info! I am a big DIYer, so tying my own was my first inclination, but I wanted to find out what the veterans were using before I did things the hard way.

Atomizer, do you only use the Yates Adjustable Daisy only for your Fifi or are using these for your aider daisy as well?

cobbledik · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2012, 10:07:08 AM »

What Atomizer was talking about with the adjustable to a fifi is a cool trick for lowering out/cleaning, but not a fifi as a fifi is normally used. in general if you want to use your adjustable as a fifi then you use it to connect to the ladder you're on and then just cinch it up so that you're hanging on it as close as you want. This method replaces a fifi.

I use two adjustables, one for each ladder AND a fifi. The reason for this is speed. Cinching the adjustable daisy up as a fifi requires you to uncinch the adjustable when you move off the adjustable-as-fifi. Takes time that when multiplied by the amount of time you do it on overhanging terrain is a waste of energy and time. With a fifi as well as adjustable daisies, you can often walk up the ladder and fifi in without having to cinch up the ladders, saving the cinching of the adjustable for when it's very steep or you're tired at the end of the day.

mungeclimber · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2012, 10:22:03 AM »

if it weren't for the clusterfrig of looped stuff at my waist, I'd do what Cobble is doing. Maybe I'll change tho.

squiddo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2012, 12:05:05 PM »

Quote from: Brad Young on July 10, 2012, 05:50:04 PM

When I was your age, young man, we just took 21 feet of one-inch flat webbing and tied it into aiders. Hell, I did my first Grade Five aid wall and my first two El Cap routes with tied aiders.

And I walked to the base of each route too, two miles in the snow, uphill each direction, carrying a canvas haul bag with no real backpack rig, and I've slept in a one point hammock, thereby enduring total misery for a whole night on several occasions, and, in the early days I didn't even have a cell phone to take, and no supertopos either, and peckers, well they weren't climbing gear, that's for sure, and Fosters came in big steel cans that were perfectly indestructible in a haul bag, and ropes were 50 meters, and my harness was a Chouinard sewn unit made of a single piece of two-inch flat webbing, and did I mention the snow? Both ways.

Ah, better listen to the young guys that post here.

HA, nice Brad. I still have my set of those same aiders

cobbledik · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2012, 12:40:32 PM »

Quote from: mungeclimber on July 11, 2012, 10:22:03 AM

if it weren't for the clusterfrig of looped stuff at my waist, I'd do what Cobble is doing. Maybe I'll change tho.

I order my Shield Harness directly from Yates and request two belay loops. cost a bit extra and voids the warranty but it helps A LOT with the clusterfrig

F4? · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2012, 01:29:47 PM »

Yeah, Brad is cheap on the aiders...."now that you've led the pitch, can you tag your aiders down for me..??"

Buy a new pair....you'll wish you had when you are on a piece..dinking around with the the aider...bam yer airborn.

Or tie yer own, and keep an eye out on the wall for a dropped pair. Landshark did that going up the shield...he got to upgrade along the way!

Brad did enlighten me to not tethering the 2x aiders, daisy on each side...rather clip an go!

Atomizer · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2012, 01:39:38 PM »

I use one adjustable daisy with a fifi permanently attached. We call this the floating fifi.
Then I have two normal daisies, one for each aider. I want these daisies because they are full strength when clipping into anchors and such. And you never experience the hassle of having to extend/ contract two adjustables. You just have one adjustable thing that is used to the maximum.

I love this combo for many reasons over the other methods. This method seemed ridiculously stupid at first, but I watched Hoipoiloi rock this thing on some really fast ascents of The Captain and I was sold. It takes a little more muscle to use, especially on overhanging terrian, but there is some serious convenience with never having to lengthen a daisy that has a bulky aider attached to it. The floating fifi is brilliant for aid routes that also have lots of free climbing. You can free climb up hook it onto fixed gear or just placed gear then quickly ratchet up without daises and once you are above, all you have to do is jiggle the fifi off and you are free again without an aider hanging beneath you. It really helps to not have to use an have an aider which gets in the way when you don't need it. Also when going aid to free you hang off the fifi, remove your aiders and bunch them up to be out of the way, then when you are ready to free all you have to do is joggle the fifi and you are off with nothing to get stuck or encumber you.

The floater really comes in handy for cleaning and i mean really really handy, especially when you are in steep or traversing terrain. I clip it in to the piece i'm cleaning and ratchet up, have that take my weight, then free the rope, re weight the rope via gri gri then lower off with the adjustable to the point where i'm on the rope enough to unweight the piece and clean. It also really helps when you need to do a 2-1 or 4-1 lower out. It makes me feel so much more free. buy the yates, cut the webbing off and then get someone to sew your fifi on and make sure your fifi has a big enough hole to clip into biners which will help you not lose gear when cleaning with the above methods.

Damn im at work, better get back to it. shouldn't be posting now, but this is so much more appealing then work or arguing about rap bolting.

MUCCI · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2012, 02:34:27 PM »

All good ideas here.

Yates Ladders are great, but I use a 3 step floater with my setup. I use it when on the steeps for stability. It is matched to align with the first 3 steps on the ladder.

Hard(er) aid I use the method described by Atomizer to a T. Yates adj with FIFI is the tits mcCgee.

On the easy stuff, I sometimes use Cobblediks rig.

Bottom line, do it all at least once and figure out what is good for you. 2 ladders exclusively is the new wave, but I have never been able to switch over fully.

mynameismud · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2012, 05:31:11 PM »

When going fast I use two daisy's, each daisy has one aider on the end. I have been able to go very fast with this and never worry about dropping anything. If the aid gets hard I add a floating adjustable and a floating third aider. I prefer the floating aider to be a 4 loop aider since my regular aiders are 5 loop. This provides a half step which can help out at times. I really dislike using aiders with no attached daisy, slows me down.

I attach my aiders to the daisy with a small locker and depending on what I am doing will put a hook or a cam hook on the locker. Some times when aider a crack system that is continuous I clip cams in and use them to walk up the crack.

Edit:
I say hard but have not done anything over A4. Most of what I have done is A2 or A3. Most of my aid has been C2 or C3 with lots of A0 thrown in.

cobbledik · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2012, 05:53:15 PM »

Hmmm, looks like i'm going to switch over to Atomizer's floating fifi rig next time out. Makes a shit ton of sense in theory.

- - -

So far in the past year or two I've found a Yates speed ladder at the base of Leaning Tower and 2 different aiders at the base of El Cap.

JC w KC redux · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2012, 07:28:43 PM »

Quote from: Atomizer on July 11, 2012, 01:39:38 PM

Damn im at work, better get back to it. shouldn't be posting now, but this is so much more appealing then work or arguing about rap bolting.

thanks for the belly laugh!

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Author Topic: Aid climbing gear (Read 46876 times)