Aid climbing gear

[JC w KC redux]

Landshark!

candygram for Mongo...

[Aaron McDonald]

Anyone have experience with FISH Smart Aiders? http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/bigwall.html

[F4?]

Can't aid gear be used when rap bolting???

It it relevant!


Yeah, I like using both a fifi and an adjustable daisy. Top stepping is easier w the adj daisy.....

[Atomizer]

I've used smart aiders for close to ten years now. Good quality stuff for lesser duty routes.  I used those for Half in a day, South Face, Etc. Go for Yates if you plan on spending a lot of time in the aiders. I used to work for Fish... I recommend calling him before ordering to confirm what year they will arrive in. He might be moving at the moment.

F4, yes this stuff could be used for rap bolting, but I can't recommend what is best for that usage.
As for using this stuff for lead bolting i think that aiders are illegal, Tom said you might as well just rap bolt if you are going to aid up the route.

[Atomizer]

I bet The Fish would sew a fifi onto one of his adjustables for you also. This is way better than tying it on.
Zack used to do ours, but...

[squiddo]

Zack used to do ours, but...

Sorry Adam:-(

[Atomizer]

No worries Squiddo, Zack is still strong in our hearts.

[squiddo]

No worries Squiddo, Zack is still strong in our hearts.

I can imagine......F4 and I each have some of the last chalk bags he made. SOLID.

[MUCCI]

As for using this stuff for lead bolting i think that aiders are illegal, Tom said you might as well just rap bolt if you are going to aid up the route.

Seriously?

I think that MANY of us are on different pages here. 

Aid is Aid.

Rap bolting is rap bolting.

Stance is Stance.

How would Tom have preferred his route get sent?

[Atomizer]

Mucci, I'm speaking of something Tom taught us, not something that is related to the current routes in question. He questioned our bolting of Miscegenation making sure we didn't aid anything. Which seemed to mean, did we place a hook then pull up on it. He seemed to have the strict rule of not pulling up on a hook and putting a bolt in higher then you could reach before the hook was on. He asked this after Angelo decked clipping the 2nd bolt. But then when he climbed the route, which he recently did clean, he said the bolts were perfectly positioned. I guess you can only hang on hooks, not pull on them.
 
edit: Tom prefers the maximize possible adventure method.

[mynameismud]

I suppose hammering a nut tool into mud to bolt off of is out of the question.  Kinda like a pecker but different.

[squiddo]

Kinda like a pecker but different.

[Atomizer]

Here is a pic of some gear that Zack custom made for me before Angelo and I did The Trip last year.

Notice the Floating FiFi which he made out of some super thin webbing. Hoipoiloi broke his but mine just keeps on floating me up.

The jugging straps are amazing. The foot straps have adjustable webbing on one side and a double strip of elastic on the other making for a comfy and tight fit that is easy to get in and out of and wont come out unexpectedly.

That was a fun day sitting in Zack's messy as hell room listening to trance music sewing stuff up. And he wouldn't let me pay him for it. The guy had such a generous heart.

[Atomizer]

Mud, Nut tools are not illegal you just cant pull up on it once you've placed it.
I still cant think of where you got a nut tool in on that thing...

[mungeclimber]

Mucci, I'm speaking of something Tom taught us, not something that is related to the current routes in question. He questioned our bolting of Miscegenation making sure we didn't aid anything. Which seemed to mean, did we place a hook then pull up on it. He seemed to have the strict rule of not pulling up on a hook and putting a bolt in higher then you could reach before the hook was on. He asked this after Angelo decked clipping the 2nd bolt. But then when he climbed the route, which he recently did clean, he said the bolts were perfectly positioned. I guess you can only hang on hooks, not pull on them.
 
edit: Tom prefers the maximize possible adventure method.

Yeah, pulling up on a hook with a long adjustable daisy is how I test it safely from below the lower bolt. I ain't no dumbie.

[Atomizer]

Doesn't work for me, I place bolts further apart. So I won't be accused of aiding.

[MUCCI]

So now HOW you Aid is a marker for a good route? 

Bolt placement should be the highest priority if you are aiding.

Let me get this straight, you climb 5.12, throw a hook on, and start drilling?

Hmmmm, guess as long as you didn't pull up on the effing hook you are hanging on, it will ensure you get a better route, with bolt placements as good as rapbolting.

BUT when I use a ladder and pull on everything I'm hanging on, I will place bolts in the wrong place, and create a shitty route?

Beg to differ, I may not climb 5.12 but can manufacture a route from the ground with the best of them, and have on many occasions with just hooks.

Maybe the West of the sun authors should have used this approach.  But then they created a 5 star world class route by other means.

So Adam, when you put a bolt in on aid, do you split hairs as to HOW much aid you used for fear of being "light duty"? 

Just seems arbitrary.

[mynameismud]

I think it is a matter of purity.  Kinda like Jack only did stance bolting some folks do not make upward progress using aid.  ground up is ground up but there different styles of ground up.

[mungeclimber]

I think it is a matter of purity.  Kinda like Jack only did stance bolting some folks do not make upward progress using aid.  ground up is ground up but there different styles of ground up.

yep yep, thought some might argue it's ethics, rather than merely style since it's still about how you placed the fixed pro.

I think it is arbitrary. But now I see how Atom's approach may have fed into the opinions around the attempted bolt ladder on the south end of Mono.

[Atomizer]

Let me get this straight, you climb 5.12, throw a hook on, and start drilling?

Its not that simple, but I try to subscribe to that belief.  But think about it, if you use aid for upward progress you are taking out some of the adventure. Some view aiding as cheating if you make upward progress off that aid point.

So Adam, when you put a bolt in on aid, do you split hairs as to HOW much aid you used for fear of being "light duty"?  

I dont worry about too much but Tom and K-Man would likely be disappointed in that style. Especially since they have asked if Mittens and I used that style. But maybe that is why they never made it up those Monolith projects.

Yes bolting at the Pinns is complicated, mostly because this forum. Without it we would have so many more routes to climb.

And on the South Side of the Mono Bolt ladder, there wasn't anything to hook on. So those guys bailed after we told them how irrational they were.