Author Topic: Aid climbing gear  (Read 46856 times)

mynameismud

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 5991
    • Mudncrud
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 03:44:49 PM »
I think the forum is a venue to allow folks to communicate.  The whole ground up thing was around and enforced before the forum.  This site just make is it easier for people to get together that normally probably would not.
 

Yes bolting at the Pinns is complicated, mostly because this forum. Without it we would have so many more routes to climb.

Here's to sweat in your eye

MUCCI

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 462
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 04:01:17 PM »
Fair enough Adam.

Different schools, I was brought up that if your cheating, your cheating and all aid is cheating in the realm of route developement.

So I took that and ran with it right into my aiders!!!

BWHAHAHAHAH!


mungeclimber

  • PermaBan
  • ***
  • Posts: 6722
    • http://www.sonorapassclimbing.com
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 04:51:37 PM »
I really think a careful bolt ladder could yield a free climb, mostly likely though it will need some hooking.

I'm half tempted to try and get something going on that thing to give you guys something to free.

Hook or Fly!
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

Atomizer

  • Atomized
  • *
  • Posts: 855
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2012, 09:40:15 PM »
Do it Munge! Apparently its all about the final product anyway...

CruxLuv

  • Queen Of Crud
  • **
  • Posts: 564
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 08:01:49 PM »
No worries Squiddo, Zack is still strong in our hearts.

 :thumbup:
The "best" climber is the one having the most fun.

skully

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 266
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2012, 07:14:37 PM »
Homan, We're All gonna Die!  8)
Holy crap! oh, please little hook stay, please stay, that's right you're fine........And  Yes! off THAT manky shit. Whew.

karl

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2012, 09:07:17 AM »
Given what I am seeing, maybe it is time to take the concept of "adventure" out of route development at Pinnacles.  Given the scarcity of rock and permanence of bolts (even if you pull them and fill them, the damage is still done), it is a FA parties duty to think hard about every time they are going to put a drill to the rock. 

The biggest problem I have seen at Pinnacles has not been ascent style, but the overwhelming number of routes that lead to nowhere, routes that deserve negative stars, and routes that simply don't make any sense.  Seriously, how many "No Star" routes does Pinnacles need?  Given all the limitations that I have seen proposed, what you end up with are routes that go up to a high point and stop.  Why?  Because the climbing became too hard, the bolt line headed to a feature that didn't pan out, the climbing became too unaesthetic, or the original party just lost interest. 

If you are not bolting onsight, from stance, with no rest, then the sense of adventure is going to be gone anyway.  If you are going to hang on a hook, then own it; you are aiding.  Take that as an opportunity to place the bolts where they belong and not in a place that meets some arbitrary criteria.

I really think it is time for everyone to take a step back and think about what they are preserving and for who.  When someone raps down a potential route to see if the rock is good or pulls on a hook to reach for a better hold or bolting stance, it in no way takes anything away from the efforts and styles of other people.  The history of climbing is not tarnished forever and the only danger is that the potential new route might not get done or that a bolt might be in a better place.

Just something to think about.

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6176
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2012, 09:13:24 AM »
Quote
The biggest problem I have seen at Pinnacles has not been ascent style, but the overwhelming number of routes that lead to nowhere

  :o :o :o

I'm not worthy.

mungeclimber

  • PermaBan
  • ***
  • Posts: 6722
    • http://www.sonorapassclimbing.com
Re: Aid climbing gear
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2012, 09:42:26 AM »
it is a FA parties duty to think hard about every time they are going to put a drill to the rock. 


This point makes sense to a certain extent. But even if people thought hard, the rate at which routes could be equipped to down still far exceeds a hooking style rate of establishing. 

Climbers will establish new routes. They won't refrain ex nihilo. They will refrain by their own limits if the ethic is preserved. 

To Brad's prior post on this point of scarcity of resource, and the scaricity of resource that you mention, Pinns deserves an ethic of ground up to preserve the resource.

On the other hand, it seems a good counter argument to my point here, that the spacing between bolts when hooking could be debated because it is a type of "cheat." 


As a practical matter, preserving ground up ethics is a wide spectrum that allows a lot of opportunity. It doesn't limit us to onsight, stance, no rest perfection, which if applied universally would, by implication, call for a removal of those routes that couldn't meet that ethic. Assuming you could get even some consensus around that approach...

thoughts?

On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge