Lucky 13...seems my luck just ran out!

[JC w KC redux]

Well I got spit off another 5.9 today.
5.9 seems to be my new nemesis in terms of grade.
I popped off just a few feet above the deck the first time.
I peeled off again a few feet higher the second time - luckily landing flat-footed and on even ground, but shaken.
I probably would have been able to clip the first bolt, but some numbskull stole the hanger.
I figured I could get to the 2nd bolt, since it didn't look any higher or even as high as many of the leads I've done.
Clearly THAT wasn't happening!
Long story short - not wanting to risk injury - I improvised a few aid moves with some stoppers on the studs and stubbornly tried to continue.
Trying to move above the second bolt I'd find a good handhold on one side but nothing or marginal for the other hand.
That might not have been a big deal if the climb weren't overhanging.
I just couldn't seem to get over my feet well enough to get through the "one-handed" moves between bolts 2, 3 and 4 without hangdogging or pulling up on my gear - embarrassing to say the least!
Now that I've blown my chance at an onsight lead, would anyone care to share their insights/experience/technique for this bolt ladder that supposedly goes free at 5.9?
Let the ribbing begin...

[JC w KC redux]

I wanted to ask about these anchor bolts too.
Are these the infamous SMC Death Anchors that John Long talks about in his anchors book?
He says they are roughly the thickness of a quarter and take on a distinctly bronze tint.
The bolt on the upper anchor hanger that shows no corrosion was flexing a bit in the hole as KC rappelled.
I'm paying a lot closer attention to things now!
The screw links installed on these hangers are the smaller variety(whatever the next size is down from 3/8")

Lower bolt





Upper bolt

[F4?]

Those are just fine.

[Brad Young]

Those (or that - is it only one?) bolt hangers have been missing since I've been aware of the route. Instead of stolen they may never have been left at all by the FA party (who presumably did the route as an aid line and so didn't need all the bolts to have hangers).

I don't recall the moves though, or where the crux is.

[JC w KC redux]

Those (or that - is it only one?) bolt hangers have been missing since I've been aware of the route. Instead of stolen they may never have been left at all by the FA party (who presumably did the route as an aid line and so didn't need all the bolts to have hangers).

I don't recall the moves though, or where the crux is.

thanks Brad,

I suspected it was established as an aid line even though the FA says unknown.
The first two bolts don't have hangers. The first one you can reach from the ground and is listed in the guidebook as not counted in the thirteen. I confirmed by looking where the knob is in relation to the 3rd bolt - next to each other on the topo. I do suspect someone took the hanger off the first bolt since you don't have it listed as hangerless in the guidebook. Probably some smartass who thought it made the climb too easy - or some big dumb animal that ran short
Needless to say, the crux for me was between bolts 2 and 3 and continued between 3 and 4. The rating drops way off after moving above the 4th bolt.

any thoughts on those SMC hangers/Long's info?

[JC w KC redux]

Those are just fine.

gee Factor - i woud have never guessed you'd say that!

[mungeclimber]

F4 is once again full of shit.

The one that is rusting is one type of the suspect variety. Mucci, would you agree?


As for the 'first' bolts missing a hangers, that's been that way for years and years.

It's a crimpy line for a couple moves. I had a similar sensation of it being harder than I remembered it. There is a way to do it fairly quickly & clip, and thus not get pumped out. Unfortunately I don't recall the specifics. I just remember having to pop off and restart and the second go didn't gas me.

[F4?]

That's why we have 2 to clip.

[mynameismud]

I do not think that is the bad smc type hanger.  They are thinner. 

[JC w KC redux]

I do not think that is the bad smc type hanger.  They are thinner. 

Thanks for the input Mud. I think the screwlinks are 1/4" because I carry a 3/8" and they were definitely smaller.
The hangers are definitely thinner than the standard modern hangers but possibly a little thicker than Leepers.
I didn't have a quarter in my pocket to compare thickness - guess that is one more thing to add to my rack! 

I found pics on the ASCA website.
It appears the "good" SMC's are about the same thickness as Metolius or Fixe hangers.

EDIT 8-21-20 - thickness of SMC is more similar to Metolius - Fixe tend to be a little thicker (or at least appear that way to the naked eye because the edges are more square than other manufacturers).

[JC w KC redux]

That's why we have 2 to clip.

funny Factor!
The "good" anchor bolt was the one that was flexing in the hole!
At least the bolts are 3/8"
Needless to say, the bolts on the lower part of the climb where I fell, hangdogged and ashamedly aided all held no problem - and I'm pretty sure all but one of the hangers on the route are this same type.
At this point I am more curious than anything and way more "aware" after reading Long's book.

[karl]

Slightly off topic, but when you are pushing the grade or climbing on really suspect rock, a stick clip can be your friend.  A broken calcaneus will definitely set you back.  Not to mention, nothing ruins your climbing day like carrying a friend out.

[JC w KC redux]

Slightly off topic, but when you are pushing the grade or climbing on really suspect rock, a stick clip can be your friend.  A broken calcaneus will definitely set you back.  Not to mention, nothing ruins your climbing day like carrying a friend out.

I appreciate the concern Karl. I am actually pretty used to jumping off stuff since I unicycle regularly - BUT after popping off twice and considering myself lucky the 2nd time, I did back off. I actually do own a stick clip but have never been able to bring myself to use it. I quit carrying it some months back with the idea that all my leads need to be onsight and clean or I just won't try them until my skills improve. I only have 4 clean 5.9's under my belt and those are all on the Flumes. The only others I have tried are Me and My Monkey(made it to bolt 2 and clipped it before I peeled off) and Lucky 13.
This weekend was actually the first time I've fallen off anything trying to reach the first bolt.
I'll probably just back off a bit for now.    

[mungeclimber]

Just to be clear for mr. mud, on what JC is calling the "lower" anchor bolt in the pics, it has signficant galvanic corrosion. This is exactly what Long talks about in his book and Greg Barnes has mentioned before. I think there are however, three types of SMC hangers from different generations. The thin ones, some questionable ones, and the normal stainless. Could be wrong on the total number as that was based on campfire talk. The one in the "lower" anchor bolt pic looks like the thin type to me with the dull yellow and brown corrosion.

[karl]

... I actually do own a stick clip but have never been able to bring myself to use it. ... 

That is very reasonable and I am impressed with your sweet unicycle skills!

In my early years of climbing, I was the same way.  I didn't even like important gear beta.  Then, on my second trip to Smith Rocks, after downclimbing 20' three times on the same route, I met a local who clipped the first bolt for me.  He explained how, at Smith Rocks, they use a "Stick Clip Ethic" and that they don't rate anything before the first bolt (which is placed high for safety reasons).  He explained how it is not uncommon to climb a .11a that is .11c to the first bolt and that I should take that into consideration when embarking on a route. 

Over the years of watching people deck, I realized that sport climbing is "Rock Climbing" and not "Rock Protecting", so I started carrying a clip for the certain occasions.  Just food for thought.  I wholeheartedly support whatever personal ethic someone wants to use.  And at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter, as long as you are happy with yourself, don't get hurt, and have a great time.

I just thought that I'd give you a perspective that I didn't even know about for the first 6 years of my climbing life.

[F4?]

Speaking of stick clip. I had to buy a 6ft that extends to 12ft today. I had launched a model helicopter that drifted into a oak tree. No way was I going to lose my sons respect...dad will get it.

So now I'm ready for 108....12ft plus my reach... should get me to 1/2 way up stuff...

Ahhh smith rock. That is a place of beauty and good beer. Fun time there, but I was on the easy 5.10 routes. I dream of getting back there for a week.

[JC w KC redux]

i'm still gonna leave the stick clip at home and start working on my downclimbing skills.

i did some quick analysis of the photos to confirm the thickness of those hangers.

measuring the screw link in mm's shows 15mm.
measuring the thickness of the hanger shows 3mm.
i looked at some screw links today and those on Lucky 13 are undoubtedly 5/16" thick.
now comes the hard part - the math - "math is hard" - thanks Barbie!!

i'll keep it simple for anyone that may be math challenged.
3mm is 1/5 of 15mm
1/5 of 5/16 is 1/16
a quarter is 1/16" thick
therefore...the hangers are about the thickness of a quarter = DEATH HANGERS
now here comes the statistics portion:
if i remember correctly, according to the null hypothesis - DEATH HANGERS SHOULD EQUAL DEATH
looks like we can reject the null hypothesis based on this weekend's experiment...
in non technical terms - we SHOULD be DEAD - which might make ky and Factor happy but not KC and JC

looks like that master's degree in science paid off!

[JC w KC redux]

I was on the easy 5.10 routes. I dream of getting back there for a week.

i would have to be dreaming to think 5.10 is easy!

[mungeclimber]

so I'm guessing we should replace those puppies.  

I'm in if I can climb Redline or DropZone afterwards?

[JC w KC redux]

so I'm guessing we should replace those puppies.  

I'm in if I can climb Redline or DropZone afterwards?

Funny/ironic you should say that because we were doing Lucky to get back up there and climb both of those! They have been on my short list for a while. Every time we've been close, the sun has been coming over the Machete and blinding us to look up there. I've already led Twinkle Toes several times and Alias Bandit Bench once, so we were doing Lucky to knock it off the list and as an approach to both of your FA's. I wanted to be able to tell you that we'd climbed both of those when we meet you this weekend. The best laid plans I guess...shoulda saved Lucky for a Friday the 13th...daaaamnit!