Am I a jerk?

[cob]

I need a little help deciding whether I was being a jerk in a disagreement I had at the Pinnacles this weekend.

Here is what happened:



We hiked in on the East side and along the base of Discovery Wall looking for a warmup.  What I really wanted to do was Portent.  When we got there, there was a toprope hanging off the anchors, straight down to the ground with no directionals.  Because the route traverses fairly far from the right up to the left, the rope was not on the line of the climb.  There was a single guy at the bottom.  I asked him if he was toproping Portent but he didn’t really know.



We walked back up to Ordeal, which seemed like a good alternative warmup.  We were about to start when the guy from Portent came up and said that his three friends were at the top trying to set up a toprope on that climb, and that they would then rappel the line when it was ready.



I told him that I was going to climb Portent instead of Ordeal, but he didn’t understand.  My logic was that I could lead Portent faster than they could set up a toprope on Ordeal, rappel it, and get over to Portent to toprope.  

We went down to Portent and I set my stuff at the base of the climb.  This guy then understood that I was going to lead it, and radioed his buddy at the top of the wall.  The guy at the top told us to get away from his climb or he would call the ranger.   That threat sealed it for me, I had to climb it.



Anyway, we climbed the route quickly with no issues and we walked off.  It was pretty easy to stay free of the toprope.  And it took them almost 2 hours after that before they actually started climbing.

There was no further conflict with these guys beyond them telling us that we were uncool.  We didn't respond.



Was I being a jerk?

Should I have just warmed up on Wet Kiss and let it go?

Does anyone perceive there to be any danger in leading Portent with a TR hanging from the route with no one climbing on it?

What about if people were to rappel the line, given that the rappel line is left of the actual climb?



My wife, who was there watching, thinks that is was safe, but that it wasn't worth any conflict and that I should have moved to another climb.

My partner on the climb thinks we did the right thing.

[Brad Young]

First: You're a jerk by definition for posting on this site. All us Masters of Mud are jerks. Welcome.



Second: I think it's cool that you are concerned enough to ask other's opinions. Asking other climbers is a great way to keep open communication, keep respect up for each other and (hopefully) avoid conflict.



Third: In my opinion you might have been a little bit of a jerk. These bozos seem like nooby, classic gym climbers (is threatening to tell the rangers a dead givaway?) They were being total jerks. But maybe your ego got into it a bit. Maybe better to just move on, especially since you were already set up to do Ordeal. I doubt I would have done what I am advising, but you've asked for objective opinions, and since I wasn't there I can be objective. Maybe staying away would have been good to avoid conflict. Maybe too to avoid getting hurt. While I don't see any obvious dangers in what you did, noobies never cease to amaze me in how many ways they can screw up. You'd have felt pretty silly if they dropped a rock or pack on you. Better to stay away from dipshits (dipshits = noobies who are too stupid to interact well with/ take advice from others).



Fourth: These folks are probably lucky they didn't pull that shit with Mr Mud - he'd of "accidently" knocked one of them off the top - which may be what they deserve.

[mungeclimber]

I agree with Brad.



Maybe a little more communication at the time would have a gone a long way to resolve the issue, e.g. at the point that you were on Ordeal verify exactly what they were intending to do.  Phrasing it in a way that says "hey to stay out of your way, we're going to lead Portent, then we'll be out of your way. It only takes us 25 minutes to lead and be out of your way altogether. Then after that we are going to bash in some bolts on an obscure route called Jingus" Ok, maybe not on that sentence.



Setting up multiple topropes for a party of climbers is fine and dandy, but they sure don't get to monopolize those routes all day long.

[Jody Langford]

The spat was a draw until the "Call the ranger threat". Then all bets are off and it is "Survival of the Fittest".

[The Big]

Your definitely a jerk cuz you should have done laps soloing up one then down the other.  Then down one and up the other.  When you climb past, give the old chalk dust off and make sure to fart.  And, be sure to mumble fuggin bumblies everytime ya lap them.  



One party tieing up two routes at the same time in a crowded area is not acceptable.  Oh yea, the above sequence is best performed with a beer bottle in hand (make sure it only has water in it for when the cheessie bastards call the ranger).



fuggin bumblies

[F4?]

So one party is setting up topropes on 2 of the most popular climbs in the park?? They were the ones being un-cool.



Was it a class? I've seen a Planet Granite class do this before on Portent. The irony is you can't TR it with one rope.



I guess just like in the gym rules engagement must be posted at the trailhead?? Kinda like when you are on a trail...



Boulders Yeild to top-ropers, who Yeild to leaders, who Yeild to soloists and all bow down to the feral rat.



So Brad are you going to include a blurb in the book about folks not camping out on a route. This isn't Castle Rock, is it?

[cob]

They were a party of 4, setting up double rope topropes.  They were not a class.  They didn't have any members of their group who could lead.



Actually, they told my wife that they were from LA and it was their first time at pinn, which is a great arguement for why I should have stayed very far away from them.



We moved to the upper crust where we climbed among people who knew what climb they were on, how long they'd be there, and where they were going afterward.   It was wonderful.



Mr Mud-I'm sorry to say that Mrs. Cob is with child so I'm not allowed to solo, at least not while she's watching.

But I'm giving more thought to your suggestion of climbing with a beverage in hand.

[squiddo]

They were from LA you say.....ahhhh it all makes sense now



Seriously...I've been in "sorta" that place before and I always tend to at least "try" and be the better man. It's not always easy to do though as evidenced by this situ. Personally I would have looked elsewhere and cursed them under my breath as gym swinging tard noobies AND over beers later. Call the Ranger...christ gimme a break you knobs.



A good story makes it all worthwhile though. In my experience (which is always limited as in life) I do better by turning the cheek in dealing with inconsiderate asses such as these guys. It irks me when classes set-up multiple classic lines on busy weekends.



Reminds me of the time I came up on The Line at Lovers Leap to spy a haul bag and twobies (my word) practicing big wall techniques on the classic climb on a Sat. To me it was inconsiderate...to them perhaps acceptable. Who was in the right there remains to be judged upon later. Lucky for me though I'd done the climb more than I'd cared to and I was approaching another that day.

[Forest]

Cob, you obviously should have 1) pulled their toprope 2) defecated on the rope 3) led up ordeal underneath them.



Well, okay, not really.



Climbing at discovery wall a couple of weeks ago drove me crazy for similar reasons. Some party of three or four insisted on a crazy clustered hybrid of toproping to the first anchor then having the last top-roper lead past those anchors to the top. Then proceed to bring up and lower each of the other people in their party. It took hours...



Made me happy to get back to my beloved and *empty* Mt. Lemmon...



Well, as soon as I get done with this three weeks of PT for my ganked shoulder from spending too much time in the gym with you. :-(



Climb on.

[Ubergoober]

A 4 person party setting up topropes on 2 of the more popular (and easy) climbs on Discovery Wall on a weekend is the definition jerk-ness. I would have had a two word response to their "we'll tell the ranger" comment. I may have done worse. They may have needed to call the ranger for other reasons...I probably would have led Ordeal anyhow, although having been almost killed once by a party of tards launching boulders off the trail above Rat Race while they were setting a top rope on that (while I was leading the 5.8 to the left)...



However, you are a jerk however for climbing at Discovery on a weekend with all of the other gym tards when there are tons of classic routes just beyond the beaten path. I will forgive you this time however since you were with Mrs. Cob who is with child.

[cob]

Uber, I concede I should have gone elsewhere in the monument.  Even Mrs. Cob is no excuse, since she was able to very slowly and proudly waddle her way up to the upper crust to watch us climb and to mourn her inability to join in.  We should have hiked up to the Hatchet and that upsidedown ice cream cone next to it (Gertie?).





Funny thing about the weekend, it wasn't that busy (for climbing anyway).  Seems like on long weekends a lot of people take longer trips.  Here is my top ten list of the worst places to be on a holiday weekend, all worse than discovery wall:



1.Swan Slab

2.Anywhere on Interstate 80 in California

3.The old woman (JT)

4.The town of Tracy.  Just because.

5.Intersection rock (JT)

6.Manure Pile

7.Trashcan rock (JT)

8.The open books

9.Planet Granite Santa Clara.  Oops I mean Sunnyvale.

10. Jam Crack (by the falls)

[Ubergoober]

add: Washington's Column (at least the first 4 pitches).