Author Topic: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?  (Read 3699826 times)

Brad Young

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The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« on: November 20, 2013, 08:06:16 PM »
I've done the standard Machete descent now more than 20 times over the 29 years I've been climbing at Pinns. It's changing (and not for the better). A question Jim McCon asked me two years ago got me thinking about how it's changing and about whether it's finally time to install rappel anchors in the upper gully part of this descent. Here are my thoughts:

First, I'm talking about the upper descent gully, the part above the meadow and below the route Barber's Backside (which is the route that goes up the first, and right now only, rappel on this descent). This upper gully is shown fairly clearly on page 311 of the 2007 guidebook.

Second, the changes I've seen aren't good. This used to be a fairly casual descent, even when it was damp. It's fairly steep, but there used to be more rocks that stuck out and gave traction. Also the rock overall wasn't as worn and smooth. But mostly there used to be much, much more dirt, grass, vegetation and hummocks over the whole length of this chute. The vegetation and dirt allowed one to bypass many of the steepest rock parts of the descent. But walking on the dirt has caused it to go away. Areas that used to be dirt and hummocks are butt-smooth rock now. And most critically, there are huge, foot-deep trenches in the dirt away from the wall. People use the dirt because the rock is now so smooth, and who can blame them? But it's eroding very badly now, the trees there are being undermined and will die (at least one is dead already). We may be "destroying-by-use" the little bit of environment that is in that gully.

Third, when Jim asked me if I thought it was a good idea to put up a series of bolted rap stations down this upper gully, I think he was a little surprised when I told him that there had been one once. A bit of history: there were no bolted rap anchors at all during the first 40 or so years of humans using this descent (but there wasn't much traffic over those years either, at least by today's standards). Then, in the mid-late 1980s someone put in multiple two bolt rap stations. I only saw these anchors once: they didn't last long. A local with a long (and very good, ethical and positive) history at Pinns removed those bolts. He did this because he thought they were:

1. Wrong and probably not ethical, and;

2. Poorly thought out and placed (my interpretation of his comments).

I didn't disagree with him on either point. He was clearly correct on the second one, and on the first point I felt he was taking the high road, which is my preferred path on ethical issues.

The descent has been the same since those bolts were removed.

Fourth, to be clear on what I alluded to above, I've become convinced that climbers will, without wanting to, destroy the grass and trees and, in fact, everything growing in that gully if we continue our ways. I've come to believe that three or so properly installed rap stations 90 feet apart are the right solution at this time. Such rap stations would consist of two-each, stainless steel bolts with rings and, critically, would be placed on the wall, at about chest height (the prior bolts were down low on the ramp and some, if I recall were also in wet spots).

Fifth, I've talked now with at least a dozen Pinns "locals" about this issue (including the one who removed the 1980s bolt stations). No-one has opposed a careful, proper installation of new rap stations. Reaction has varied from definite support to non-oppostion/who cares.

As a side note, one strong local climber who didn't care much either way just uses the Rock Around the Clock rappels since getting down by those is quick and easy. But I'm not sure this a solution for the masses - if one hasn't climbed Rock Around the Clock the mere issue of finding the right top anchor can be a non-starter. I think this backside descent is going to be the standard descent from Machete for the foreseeable future.

Sixth, would installation of such rap stations be ethical? I think so, maybe. Certainly this issue isn't as cut and dried as is the issue of adding bolts to existing climbing routes. Adding bolts to existing routes is a heresy so bad that it is exceeded (maybe) only by bolting next to protectable cracks. I worry that, in the name of "safety" (always, of necessity, the greater goal of commercial climbing enterprises) adventure will eventually be sacrificed in outdoor climbing and the wonderful history and tradition that is climbing at Pinnacles will go with it. If this ever does happen, I hope it isn't until after I have died a peaceful death from old age.

But what about adding bolted stations to a long-established descent? This isn't as close a call ethically. In point of fact, I'd be cautious on the issue myself and say "no" to the idea ("convenience anchors") but for the fact that this gully is getting badly trashed. Can rap anchors be added here without setting a bad and dangerous precedent? I think that the answer to this question is "yes," but only if the vast majority of Pinns regulars recognize this as an unusual situation and reach a consensus about this one situation.

Seeking such consensus is the purpose of this thread. Although I've talked to a dozen or more regulars, I think it is critical to bring the discussion to as many Pinnacles climbers as possible (or maybe not as many as absolutely possible - I'm not sure that I'd post this on Supertopo any more than I'd deliberately paint a target on my back and then go visit a shooting range).

Seventh, If such consensus is reached, I am willing to carefully and thoughtfully install such anchors (and I think Jim is willing to help me).

Thoughts?

squiddo

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 08:16:58 PM »
Grad- thanks for the ask. Interesting question about the anchors, the gully was steeper than I expected but manageable. The turn at the bottom your book shows deemed steeper and more slippery than I was willing to accept so I accepted a ride down another parties rope off the tree.

Speaking of that tree I could see subsequent descents doing harm to it.....an anchor might be nice......
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Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 08:39:06 PM »
Marc, part of the reason the upper gully is manageable is (I think) because one can go off into the dirt and among the trees. But that option is eroding fast. It's a real problem.

The other part of what you've said (the issues at and below the meadow and its big tree) are not what I've tried to raise in this thread though. I'm talking here only about getting down to that tree in the meadow.

Rappelling from the tree in the meadow might look like the thing to do, but I think this appearance is deceptive and, in my opinion,  rapping there leads to a longer and more tortured descent than just roping across the class four ledge (it's a walk-off from there). But that "from-the-meadow-down" discussion might be for another day.

F4?

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 08:52:15 PM »
I would agree that they would help on the decent. I never liked it and shuttered at the thought of taking my wife down it (like rock around the clock is any less stressful).  

AM I the strong climber advocating descending down Rock Around the Clock?  :blush2:
Oh, but I'm not a local....Damn! I was strong...

That's what I recommend if you want to get off with 1 rope and fast (2 ropes is even faster).

Yeah, I like going down that way and have several times.

Brad you have a point with Rock around the Clock that it's not so clear and someone not familiar would likely have issues.

Versus, seeing the top rap station and then looking down the gully see the next set.

Wasn't there a rescue a few years ago on Muchshitty, due to folks having trouble with the decent?

Make it Jim that does the drilling as who can argue with him??

Then there's my trick for getting off the Balconies with 1 rope, but that's a different story.
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JC w KC redux

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 08:52:35 PM »
It would be okay with me to have the rap stations. Putting the stations on the wall would have folks rapping down the rocky ramps rather than using the gully - so maybe it would recover over time. There is one spot along the wall that has some poison oak - but that can be easily avoided. I've been told that rapping from that big tree in the meadow does damage to the flora on the cliff below that will last for decades - plus it requires two ropes so I would never do it. I've cleaned webbing and biners from the tree. The 4th class ledge is easily protected by slinging the small trees and there are exactly two short sections that are a bit tricky to downclimb while negotiating the lower gully. If you can't do that - best to hang it up!
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Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 08:55:13 PM »

Putting the stations on the wall would have folks rapping down the rocky ramps rather than using the gully - so maybe it would recover over time.


That's exactly my idea and my hope.

Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 08:56:50 PM »
Those 'Rock Around the Clock' anchors aren't an easy way to get off Machete by accident:-)

Interesting proposal Brad.  The one comment I have is that could the rappels be 85' instead of 90' and still get down?  Believe it or not, some people still climb on 50m ropes.

Also, is there some sort of defined trail where the rappels would end or would we also need to do a bit of trail work as well?

I am in for the work and have the necessary hardware.

squiddo

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 08:59:12 PM »
The 4th class ledge is easily protected by slinging the small trees and there are exactly two short sections that are a bit tricky to downclimb while negotiating the lower gully. If you can't do that - best to hang it up!

Great time to retire;-) now onto a lucrative acting career
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Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2013, 09:00:20 PM »

now onto a lucrative acting career


Ah, a side of you that none of us knew about?

mungeclimber

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 09:02:08 PM »
If the rap stations don't put the pull of the ropes right thru the same vegetation we're trying to save, then yes, the equation balances in favor of installing a series of rap stations to prevent damage to resources.


Personally, I'm never afraid of installing anchors when it will reduce impact to vegetation, especially if the "original" impact is from climbers.

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squiddo

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 09:04:12 PM »
Ah, a side of you that none of us knew about?

Brad I've acted for years.....acted like an ass or so my beautiful wife reminds me.
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Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 09:04:45 PM »
The one comment I have is that could the rappels be 85' instead of 90' and still get down?  Believe it or not, some people still climb on 50m ropes.

Also, is there some sort of defined trail where the rappels would end or would we also need to do a bit of trail work as well?

I am in for the work and have the necessary hardware.

Good point Bruce. I think three 80 foot raps might do it. I wouldn't know until I got up there with an idea of putting the stations in.

And I'd have to say no "defined trail," but I'm talking about rap stations down into the big meadow and then, in my opinion, the rest of the normal descent is fairly clear from there (look at that page 311, it shows the meadow in the photo).

So it sounds like you're OK with the idea?


Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2013, 09:07:16 PM »
If the rap stations don't put the pull of the ropes right thru the same vegetation we're trying to save, then yes, the equation balances in favor of installing a series of rap stations to prevent damage to resources.

Ropes would pull to some degree through the vegetation, but would (I think) mostly slide right down the rock ramps. I think the overall result would be a lot, lot less impact on the dirt, grass and trees.

F4?

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2013, 09:09:26 PM »
Quote
Those 'Rock Around the Clock' anchors aren't an easy way to get off Machete by accident:-)

It just makes it a bit spicy. Nothing too bad.

Quote
Believe it or not, some people still climb on 50m ropes.
I thought Clint moved to 60m a while back?
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mungeclimber

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 09:15:30 PM »
Ropes would pull to some degree through the vegetation, but would (I think) mostly slide right down the rock ramps. I think the overall result would be a lot, lot less impact on the dirt, grass and trees.

Understood.

I'm for it. I'll give a hand too, and have dbl ring anchors I would provide to the project if we Loctite the sht out of them.

Bruce, isn't your stuff all ASCA? Feel free to save those beauties for some of the other routes. Though I guess we are restoring a previous set of anchors in that regard. meh, either way I suppose.
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waldo

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 09:16:58 PM »
I agree that the tree above the meadow is vulnerable.  If the consensus is to add anchor stations, I think one that spares the tree would be a good place to start.  I vote to add some anchors, but carefully, one station at a time followed by discussion.  I think the gully is unique enough not to initiate an ungovernable precedent in anchor addition and its deterioration merits the work.

I should mention that met the guy who put those first anchors in the descent gully.  It was in the dim (Gagner Guide era) past.  He approached me as I was dropping my rope in the car after a day’s climbing.  He introduced himself as an itinerant climber devoted to visiting and improving obscure climbing areas.  He said he planned to spend a month or so at Pinnacles, adding needed protection bolts and improving anchors.  He smoked those pink Asian cigarettes as he talked.  He mentioned that he’d done a great deal of work in the gully.  I offered the thought that he might want to go easy on the bolts and just enjoy the climbing.  He scoffed.  We parted. 

I saw him a couple of more times from a distance and then never again.  When I first encountered his Machete gully anchors, I thought they were oddly located and that the only one arguably justified was the one above the tree that dropped folks into the meadow. I suspect that he added an upper bolt to Dos Equis (soon removed by parties unknown).

Brad Young

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2013, 09:32:49 PM »

if we Loctite the sht out of them.

Bruce, isn't your stuff all ASCA? Feel free to save those beauties for some of the other routes. Though I guess we are restoring a previous set of anchors in that regard. meh, either way I suppose.

Locktite is good.

No ASCA stuff though. I wouldn't want them involved in anything that could even remotely be controversial. If we do this, I'll pay for the gear (although I'd appreciate it if you'd chip in a couple of those ring anchors, that'd be downright neighborly of you).

joe

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 09:36:03 PM »
thanks for taking the time to outline the concerns and considerations on this issue Grad, or is it Brad...I agree that the dirt/grass along the rock has deteriorated....would adding an anchor or two mitigate this?  I'm not sure...I don't tend to have very strong feelings about this kind of an issue...adding a rap station to a gully that no tourist will ever see doesn't seem to be a serious crime to me...

and yes, I've noticed some of my partners take a while to get through that descent...but if I'm really honest, I would never uncoil a rope and use those stations, much quicker to down climb and not that difficult...

Atomizer

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 10:05:40 PM »
In the larger scheme of things, any vegetation humans destroy will be quickly repaired by nature once we are gone. And I truly believe the days of the human race are numbered on this planet. We've reached a critical mass at this point.

All of us live far from Pinnacles (except for maybe Waldo?) and the action of us driving vehicles to Pinnacles have caused massively bigger holes in the earth, many of which are irreparable, but invisible to us. Out of sight, out of mind. Our impact to the gully is tiny, it will recover once we are gone. If you want to create less impact don't drive to Pinnacles.

The real issue here is that this descent has become dangerous, especially in the wet season. To me this is the most likely location that someone will die at the Pinnacles. This is one of the most sketchy descents I have done anywhere.

I also think everyone is making the assumption that new anchors would minimize impact to fragile plants and soil surfaces. But in my experience a rope allows a user to move over a wider area and consequently impact to vegetation is over a wider area. But that said if it saves lives the vegetation loss is justified.

I am not sure how to feel about this issue.

mungeclimber

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Re: The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 10:14:22 PM »
Atom... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

Remember we're talking impacts to Access, not impacts to humanity's destruction of itself.

In terms of mitigating impact by climbers, laying the rope in the expected direction of rappel will show whether there is additional impact or if the net impact is reduced.

Waldo has a good point about trying one out to see how it functions in the real world.
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