The Standard Machete Descent: Is It Time for Rap Anchors?

[joe]

did this descent again today, with a partner quite comfortable with the terrain...a couple of observations:  first, the area noted in the photograph described as 'worst damage here' actual looks more like a hiking trail at this point, I don't think people will stop using that trail...my partner felt strongly that adding rap anchors were unnecessary given the nature of the terrain...

clearly this is a minority opinion and I understand the reasons people think it's a good idea...but there's no doubt you are sacrificing a bit of the adventurous nature of the route...I don't think it's 'crazy' or 'unsafe' to hike down the descent gully as is...

by the way, has anyone been on Smiling Simian southwest face lately...we couldn't find the bolts on the 5.10 there...clipped them in the past but neither of us could see them at all today in good light...

[mungeclimber]

Simian had one bolt replaced with an upgrade. The upper one, as I recall doing it. Bottom was same as it ever was last season.

[mynameismud]

Joe, have you done it recently when it was wet?

edit:  Just to be clear I am not advocating for either side.  I really do not care on this one. For what ever reason I kind of have strong feelings both ways.  I think the decent for a route that is for the most part for beginners should be safe but I also do not think bolts should be added.  

Was just curious about the wet since for most that seems to be the problematic situation.

[F4?]

I'm still sticking with going down Rock Around the clock.

It has to equal a few less steps to the car.

[mynameismud]

I like the idea of rapping the face.  That is my preference, but that might be a bit of an undertaking for someone new to the game.

[F4?]

I like the idea of rapping the face.  That is my preference, but that might be a bit of an undertaking for someone new to the game.

Maybe the next guide can have a few pictures?

[joe]

I have done it when wet and of course it is more challenging...I really don't have strong feelings about this either...no one is going to see the bolts, there are good arguments for and against....and I think most responses I've seen are for...certainly I respect that...maybe if it's really slick I would use the anchors, but having done the descent a number of times now, I doubt it...just not necessary...
and it does take some of the shared adventure away from the experience...you know how when you've done a route that involves a little bit of something, whatever that may be, and you find out someone else has also done the route...I think with Old Original, for example, part of that experience is getting back to the ground...

I would argue that if one wanted to put energy into anchors there are a number of anchors that are set so far back as to cause ropes to get stuck or not pull...for example the top of Cuidado as we've talked about in the past...the top of Mission Impossible is another one that comes to mind, lots of examples like that...

[Atomizer]

I can still go either way on this issue. I don't think adding these anchors will reduce vegetation loss in that area. The anchors might just end up spreading out the impact over a larger area. I do believe that the anchors will improve safety on this descent, but at the same time new anchors may encourage climbers to do this route when conditions would not usually be safe in the wet season, which is also the time when the highest amount of potential damage can be done to vegetation.

[mynameismud]

Isn't the wet season the most popular climbing season?  The Pins is kinda a fall,winter,spring climbing destination.

[Aaron McDonald]

I would like to see rap anchors installed. It is a safety issue. Descending that gully can  be a very scary proposition when wet. In addition, people are also destroying the vegetation because there several paths down.  If one path with a clear descent is established it should minimize the damage to a much smaller area and make for a safer adventure.  I would also be willing to spring for the hardware if needed.

[Brad Young]

I would like to see rap anchors installed. It is a safety issue. Descending that gully can  be a very scary proposition when wet. In addition, people are also destroying the vegetation because there several paths down.  If one path with a clear descent is established it should minimize the damage to a much smaller area and make for a safer adventure.  I would also be willing to spring for the hardware if needed.

Hey Aaron, glad to see you around these parts again.

If we install anchors I'd likely also drag brush and dead tree branches up there from the lower gully to carefully "obstruct" the current, terrible erosion gullys/paths. This is a well recognized way of using natural materials to guide people to where you want them (we just did a ton of this at the work weekend in October). Taking some such material from below would leave no detectable impact there, and the material would be placed in a way that makes using the erosion gully/paths just a little more difficult than not using them.

I think this would lead to an eventual recovery of the grass, shrubs and trees that are being so impacted now.

(And thanks for volunteering to help with hardware.)

[Aaron McDonald]

Hey Aaron, glad to see you around these parts again.

Thanks Brad!  The cold weather has brought me home. I would be willing to help with brush dragging as well if you can give me a little advance warning. 

[Gavin]

Hey gang -

I've been out of touch volunteering in southern Africa for 5 weeks, but will be back at the Pinns on December 10th. Great times assisting with wildlife conservation research in Swaziland, and my Achilles tendon is continuing to heal up well.

Having worked my way down the Standard Machete Descent more than a few times myself, it is good to see all the carefully considered thoughts on this issue here. In a nutshell, I'm in favor of the anchors for safety, can contribute hardware as well, and would be happy to accompany Brad on installing them, if that would be helpful.

Brad, I'll try to touch base later in the week when I'm back in the States… A couple issues come to mind with the project that I'll throw your way when internet access is more reliable!

[F4?]

Have fun Gavin.

Pictures?

[Atomizer]

You guys are seriously going to adopt rap bolting for this project... jeez, where are all the old school ethics these days?

[Brad Young]

You guys are seriously going to adopt rap bolting for this project... jeez, where are all the old school ethics these days?

No. If we do it we'll probably go station to station up from the meadow.

"Instigator" is sounding better and better.

Doesn't sound like you're coming over here for tomorrow?

[Atomizer]

No. If we do it we'll probably go station to station up from the meadow.

"Instigator" is sounding better and better.

Doesn't sound like you're coming over here for tomorrow?

I really don't care on the style. If you need help let me know I've got plenty of time to help now that I was just handed an "indefinite furlough" from work. It's pretty scary and I'm very sad. So I apologize for any out of line posts from recent past and present.

I think John and I might head down to the Pinns tomorrow and hopefully sink some more metal into the project.
But if I change my mind when do you think you'll get to The Farside?

[Brad Young]

But if I change my mind when do you think you'll get to The Farside?

You know, come to think of it, I'd better give some thought to the weather. We've now gotten a foot of snow up here and it's 25 degrees out. Chain line was below Jamestown this morning, and I know that Rawhide Road got at least a few inches of snow.

It might be too wet over there by tomorrow.

If we go though, we'd likely get there between 10:00 and 11:00 in the morning.

[squiddo]

Adam- sorry to hear the news. If you feel like sharing belays sometime at PG I've got passes for you.

[mynameismud]

yep sorry to hear and no apologies necessary.