Climbing past your hooks personal style?

[mungeclimber]

In a couple spots it's been mentioned that for those GU FA authors at Pinns, using hooks for upward progress wasn't the way. Instead, one had to free climb past the hook placement (or at least that's what I seem to recall), before they could rest on the hook to place the protection bolt.

What then does it mean to climb past the hook?  Is it just your hands, your waist, or your feet?

Any practitioners want to speak to this? I'd welcome the clarification.

Having seen some attempt at free climbing 'up to the hook' before drilling, but eventually settling back on the hook to a negative gain of altitude from the high touch point, it seemed a little odd. Perhaps this was just one person's game and not one shared by others.

Anyways, thx.

[clink]

Perhaps this was just one person's game

I ran into Jack Holmgren on No Smiles when I was 18, he sold me on his game.

Years later Kelly Rich and I climbed together one day. He explained the rules to his(and friends) game. They had a very high standard for ground-up ascents using hooks, you might ask him. 

Then there is The Jim M. BROS. group who can hang from an eyetooth, pull out the drill, look down, think to themselves (the last bolt is only 15ft below me) put the drill away, climb up 10 more feet, then place a bolt.

No hooks for me. There are too many routes good for stance ascents to be explored.

Hanging on a hook at Pinns is crazy.

[JC w KC redux]

Instead, one had to free climb past the hook placement (or at least that's what I seem to recall), before they could rest on the hook to place the protection bolt.

I'm confused. If you climb past the hook - how do you then rest on it?

[mungeclimber]

I'm confused. If you climb past the hook - how do you then rest on it?

jc, that's one reason I'm asking.

[clink]

Just kiss the rock and say a short prayer , then gingerly rest on your hook.

[mynameismud]

I think the deal is to not make forward progress using aid.  So instead of aid climbing up using hooks you free climb up then find a hook placement get it established then clip in and hang on it.  Then think many light thoughts while drilling. 

[mungeclimber]

I think the deal is to not make forward progress using aid.  So instead of aid climbing up using hooks you free climb up then find a hook placement get it established then clip in and hang on it.  Then think many light thoughts while drilling. 

at what point is the hook placed above your head, not making forward progress? if not above, then where?

Must the hook be placed below your feet, i.e. up and then back down, or is waist to chest level the game?

If you don't free climb past the hook move before drilling, then aren't you in some sense relying on the aid 'to make forward progress' and no longer have freed that section?

It seems like a practical flaw in relying on the principle of something like 'no forward progress' from the hook, unless one proves they can climb past it before drilling? Else it must come back to using 'aid' in some form, and thus the next best principle is either 'ground up' or pure stance a la Holmgren and Clink.

K-man, are you out there?

[MUCCI]

I tend to do things my way, and in a manner that will best suite the route I am bolting.

Climb up, check out the hooking options, and scope how the free route will go, where the clip should be made etc..

Then come back down to the previous placement, get the hook ready, go back up and throw on the hook.

From there I test it low if possible, and then climb up and down on it to find the right place to stop and drill exactly where the bolt should be for the clip.

Never once messed up a route in this fashion.


Hard to put standards on an aid drilled placement.  This "don't climb on aid past your hook" is retarded.  You already lost the game, and now are doing your best for the route at that point where the hooks come out.

At a high standard, where hooks are your only hope in establishing the climb, you often have to throw the hook on without inspection/testing.  Maybe that is what the OP was after in the original inquiry? 

I figure it is like the dreaded rap bolting fear.  Will this clip be where it needs to be?  If not, you must hook multiple times to get where you need to be.  Then you can take your feet and find the clipping stance, that thank god crimp and then you have affirmation that you are in the right spot, and start drilling.

Trying to put rules on hooking by means of "taking what you get" is not the best option for the route.  I guess to each his own. 

It's all cheating at that point.

[clink]

Kman and crew would pull the rope after each placement from a hook. Then lead clean to the next one.

[JC w KC redux]

At what point does a hook become a crook?

[mynameismud]

I agree with Mucci, but Munge to answer your question.  Keep it simple climb, scrub, hook, hang, drill, pound in bolt, repeat.

[mungeclimber]

Kman and crew would pull the rope after each placement from a hook. Then lead clean to the next one.

clink, interesting, and telling, but doesn't address what I think happens for some climbers where free climbing informs that first specific way of using hooks.

mucci, not really. Specific scenario that is practiced. Not looking for general or best practices. May end up with those conclusions, but anyone else see it in action?

[F4?]

Or you can just cut to the chase....rappel from the top and slam in the bolts.

Done by lunch time.

[Uncle Stinky]

What about using hooks for pro, like that bolt chopper back east,  Ken Nichols. I remember seeing a photo where he had used like seven or so in a row for pro.

[MUCCI]

Munge-

So this practice, done by a few folks mandates you put a hook on and drill from where you rest?  No climbing up in the ladders correct?

Seems like a good way to screw up a bolt placement. 

Of course we are only speaking of "how" a leader gets to the point of drilling. 

Aid is aid,  there is no grace or pride, only an attainable summit.

[mynameismud]

Munge, yes I agree.  after hanging and drilling lower off, pull rope, next person goes up.  If you do not weight the rope or a placement no need to lower off.  I have used hooks and slings as placements.  To be honest I have aided up on hooks and slings to get higher up in order to get a bolt higher.   Then there is that whole grey area where someone puts in a bolt ladder and someone else comes along and frees it.

[F4?]

So just start from the top down then....

[clink]

F4, that is satanic.

[JC w KC redux]

munge just started this nonsense to take our attention away from what is really important - posting pics from the MoM weekend

stance or don't dance!

[clink]

Munge, may I narrate the video of you attempting this?