Author Topic: Old fixed pins  (Read 41406 times)

mynameismud

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2015, 08:13:20 AM »
Sport Man is a subspecies
Here's to sweat in your eye

kylequeener

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2015, 08:26:26 AM »
Sport Man is a subspecies


I guess I'll show myself out  :nonod:

JC w KC redux

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2015, 10:03:17 AM »
In summary - what I get from the constructive comments made is:

Leave the old pins alone unless you can expertly remove and replace them with modern pins.

Place gear to back up or avoid relying on old pins.

 
One wheel shy of normal

mungeclimber

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2015, 10:46:06 AM »
Sounds about right.

Any exceptions to that are probably best circulated to see if there is some historical significance first, then see if the placement is going to deteriorate and necessitate a separate fixed piece (whether bolt or iron) in a slightly different position.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

F4?

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2015, 03:14:32 PM »
Quote
I recently took a big whipper onto a fixed pinn on Peregrine.

You too!

Can I guess a foothold broke?
My memory is fuzzy to where a fixed pin is on Peregrine...

I agree, totally bommer.

SOD, them 1/4ers were left for fun. Clint and Bruce replaced every-other one.
Another great route!
I'm not worthy.

mynameismud

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2015, 05:01:56 PM »
Here's to sweat in your eye

clink

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2015, 03:44:50 PM »
Quote
I guess I'll show myself out  No Nod

The Back Door?
Causing trouble when not climbing.

F4?

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2015, 07:21:42 PM »
Side door for them LaHonda folks....
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mynameismud

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2015, 09:24:29 AM »
slip out the back
Here's to sweat in your eye

Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2015, 11:07:23 PM »
I think the question about replacing pitons with bolts boils down to the quality of the piton when it was first placed.  If it was a good placement that has deteriorated over time then maybe it is a candidate for replacement.  If the pin was basically bogus from the beginning(The Wad in the Hanging Valley comes to mind) then it probably shouldn't be replaced.  The guidebook should reflect that the piton was/is bogus by either saying something like 'worthless piton' or increasing the seriousness rating (R/X).

mungeclimber

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2015, 07:43:30 AM »
Delusion Overhang?
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

mynameismud

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2015, 07:50:07 AM »
that went without clipping any fixed gear.
Here's to sweat in your eye

mungeclimber

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2015, 08:39:54 AM »
are the pins bogus then?

would they have held a whip?
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

mynameismud

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2015, 10:43:17 AM »
I think one could be good.  It was a philosophical decision not a placement decision.
Here's to sweat in your eye

mungeclimber

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2015, 10:52:06 AM »
the original placement wasn't philosophical, it was practical.

So if was a good placement, but has deteriorated (the question), then it should be replaced under the rule Bruce is exploring here.

If it was bogus at the time of install, e.g. the aid rating might indicate it's worth at the time, then the descriptions and ratings are to be changed.

Bounce testing it on aid should resolve the question.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

clink

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2015, 05:26:28 PM »
 
Quote
the original placement wasn't philosophical, it was practical.

So if was a good placement, but has deteriorated (the question), then it should be replaced under the rule Bruce is exploring here.

If it was bogus at the time of install, e.g. the aid rating might indicate it's worth at the time, then the descriptions and ratings are to be changed.

Bounce testing it on aid should resolve the question.

 Would be worthy to approach climbing it with a then and now perspective, it's A2 in the Roper Guide.

Quote
It was a philosophical decision not a placement decision.

 Mud is a philosopher. His FA's may be more philosophical than practical from the reports.
Causing trouble when not climbing.

F4?

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2015, 06:47:45 PM »
Lucas has a some reservations on all this talk....Pitons, good?
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Brad Young

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2015, 09:12:09 PM »

Lucas has a some reservations on all this talk....Pitons, good?


Yeah, I know what you mean. All this talk curled Tricia's hair!


Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2015, 11:35:43 PM »
My buddy, Jeff Vance, put up Delusion Overhang (now over 40 years ago!).  I will ask him about the quality of the pins way back then and post his reply.

This particular discussion raises the question of freeing old aid routes.  Not sure what seems OK in this situation.  If people are still aiding the route then adding bolts definitely changes the character.  If repeated piton placements degrade the rock then that is another consideration.  Hmmm.

In the mid-70's in the Valley a lot of the aid routes were being freed.  Climbers would place a fixed pin or two or three to provide protection only to come back a few days later and find that somebody aiding the route had cleaned the gear(Booty!).  Kind of funny, but a different sort of problem.

mungeclimber

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Re: Old fixed pins
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2015, 12:50:11 PM »
Quote
If repeated piton placements degrade the rock then that is another consideration

an issue on granite, as well as rhyolite, but destruction is slower. Does a bolt better replace the quality of the pin at the time it was placed?


For example, we would not replace the pins on Premeditated with bolts.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge