Dangerous belaying observed at the crag

[Yo-so-mighty]

Today while getting re-acquainted with Discovery Wall with Geoff, I observed something rather troubling. We had met a nice family at the base of The Plague. There was a young man, probably around 14 years old who was getting ready to lead Portent. His dad told us that he climbed in competitions all around the Bay area. So far so good.
Fast forward to both of us sitting at the top of our respective routes. I absent mindedly look over to watch him belay, and quickly notice that he is belaying off the anchor, but is yarding on the line going to his dad with both hands. I let it go for a moment, thinking that maybe he's just pulling up slack, before he starts. A moment later it becomes obvious that the dad is climbing.
I observed him not only yarding 5-7 feet of rope in at a time with no hand near the brake side, but also constant letting go of the brake hand when in the proper position. I finally asked him what device he was using (not that it matters) He told me a ATC Guide. I'm assuming he was in Guide Mode. I told him that I was going to give him some advice, and he could take it or leave it. He seemed to realize his mistakes and thanked me. I observed the rest, and he seemed to be properly belaying.
My question is, and I think I know the answer; but should I have notified the dad? I was going to talk to him 1 on 1; but they left together. If the son would have been combatative to my suggestions, it would have been an easy decision for me; but he seemed to have understood his mistakes and adjusted accordingly. It is just a bit unsettling that there was such a breakdown of a basic system. Sorry for the wall of text. Just looking for some input.

[Brad Young]

It's hard to know how to comment without more detail about your conversation with the boy.

How much explanation did you give? Did he acknowledge a single piece of advice, for example, or did you talk him through more detailed steps? And what were his responses?

At 14, if he had a decent conversation with you about how to belay, if he did more than just grunt in response, you probably communicated just fine and an additional talk with dad wouldn't have added much.

[squiddo]

At 14, if he had a decent conversation with you about how to belay, if he did more than just grunt in response, you probably communicated just fine and an additional talk with dad wouldn't have added much.

Ha! Spoken like a good dad

[Yo-so-mighty]

I explained to him that there was multiple times when he had released his break hand. He began to show me that he was holding onto the rope (the one that went to his dad), then his voice trailed off when he realized what he was saying.
I personally think that the person whose life was in danger should have been notified. I just didn't pull the trigger.

[clink]

 I observed Nelkins giving Mud a fine lead belay, maintaining minimal slack in the line.  I had good belays yesterday. We left lockers on two bolts when bailing off our high points for the day.

 A fool and redundancy are soon parted.

 Don't be caught flat     -- ed. - unknown

 Buyer beware.      -- Latin Proverb "Caveat emptor" (Beyer)

 Beware a rickety wall, a savage dog and a quarrelsome person.      -- Iranian (on caution and care)

 Because we focused on the snake, we missed the scorpion.      -- Egyptian (on caution and care)

 Eggs have no business dancing with stones.      -- Haitian (on prudence)

 Tap even a stone bridge before crossing it.      -- Korean (on vigilance)

[Yo-so-mighty]

Your post started with so much promise...

[mudworm]

A couple of weekends ago, I was climbing at the Grotto with some friends. We met a man, who was with two young boys who called him dad. I'm bad at guessing Caucasians' ages and even worse with kids' ages, but my guess is he is in his late 50's or early 60's and his boys are younger than 10. They live in Twain Harte. He said he knew of Brad, but I think he never climbed with Brad.

Anyway, he led a short easy sport route with the older son as his belayer. I was first alarmed that his son was not anchored even though ground anchor with roots was possible. Sure, he didn't plan to fall. I could understand. Then when he was at the anchor, he asked his son to take and lower him. I got really alarmed and stepped over to his son quickly. At the time, his son was using an ATC and had both hands off the rope trying to sort out the confusing twists and kinks in the rope. I grabbed the rope of the brake side. When the boy was lowering, he was constantly pulled up, so I kept my backup on until his dad was on the ground. I told the dad that he might want to emphasize to his son the importance of keeping his brake side hand on the rope in the future. Here is the conversation:
- Did you take your hands off the rope?
- Yeah, but my thing (pointing at the ATC) was all twisted!
- Oh well, you lowered me to the ground safely, so you did good.

I was a little taken aback by the relaxed attitude. I then made another comment about how he was pulled up due to the weight difference, while ground anchor was available. The man then dismissed my concern. "Recently, I had one guy saying that to me. I tell him I weigh 150 and my son 70, but I'm belaying you while you weigh 250. See, the difference between us is greater than the difference between my son and me." In his way, he just told me he was not concerned about the mere 80lb difference. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works and believe a 70lb would have a harder time belaying a 150lb than a 150lb belaying a 250lb person, but I decided not to pursue any further because I sensed that he would not listen anyway.

[clink]

Your post started with so much promise...

Sorta like your good looks and life skills.

The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.      -- Harlan Ellison

Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it.      -- Stephen Vizinczey

At least you and I are unfortified.

[clink]

I was a little taken aback by the relaxed attitude.

 The pendulum danger on top ropes set ups has surprised me. The worst yet was set by a "guide" at CRSP. The guys who taught us made sure we new the proper techniques and kept at safe practicing. We still had some close calls.

 

[clink]

more quotes for Yoso,

Empty sacks will never stand upright.      -- Italian Proverb

A turtle travels only when it sticks its neck out.     -- Korean (on journeys)

Heroism consists of hanging on one minute longer.      -- Norwegian (on courage and fear)

What cannot be cured must be endured.      -- Edmund Spenser (c.1552-1599)  Your feet and face.

Without dreams, there can be no courage. And without courage, there can be no action.     -- Wim Wenders

[Yo-so-mighty]

Please, I'm begging you, no more quotes. I give up.

[waldo]

Discovery Wall attracts potential disasters. A couple of decades ago I observed a guy "belaying" his girlfriend on Portent - no device, no body belay, nothing. He had both hands on the rope - so what. I mention to him that his girlfriend would hit the ground and die if she fell. He told me to mind my own business. Aside, from knocking him over and belaying her myself, that ended all options but prayer. She reached the top - I think. We went to Monolith.

Sorta like your good looks and life skills.

The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.      -- Harlan Ellison

Clink, long live Harlan!