Author Topic: Monolith Modernization  (Read 11377 times)

Atomizer

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Monolith Modernization
« on: April 22, 2017, 08:22:02 AM »
I climbed around on The Monolith last weekend and was kind of appalled by the condition of many bolts on numerous routes. I'm having some strong thoughts about organizing or at a least planting the seeds for a project  to rebolt many of the classic routes. Many of the bolts are in the 20-30 year old range and have signs of fatigue and weathering. The most classic and popular routes at Pinnacles should be something we are proud of as Masters of Mud.

In recent times the ASCA funded efforts have focused on anchors and obscurities. I don't have anything wrong with whats been replaced recently, a good bolt is always welcome, but the recent work has been on routes that 95% of the folks who climb at The Pinnacles could care less about climbing. And that concerns me when an obscure route might see an ascent every ten years and there are time bombs on routes that get done 100's of times a year.

I really appreciate what Roger Brown has done in Tuolumne/Yosemite because he's been un-discriminating and systematically re-bolted whole cliffs. Roger is definitely a hero to me. Just curious as to what other people think. If we can get many people on board the project could be pretty fun and less exhausting. OK... fill in the details.

Brad Young

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 08:35:48 AM »
Great thread, and great idea.

I think the glue-ins that ASCA put in on The Monolith 15 years ago have held up really well (Regular Route, Cantaloup Death and Feed the Beast, along with Verdict on Discovery Wall). Jim replaced a critical bolt on Lard Butt with a glue-in too (although he still needs to get back and pull/patch the old, replaced bolt).

It seems like routes that get this much traffic should be re-bolted with glue-ins. I have no expertise with glue-ins. I do have money though. I'll contribute a significant sum to pay for glue-ins. Can you work with ASCA to find skilled people who will spend the time?

Don't forget too that Clint, Mr Mud and F4 rebolted almost all of Lava Falls and Shake and Bake with glue-ins maybe 7 or 8 years ago (with the help of a skilled volunteer who's name I cannot recall). That was a monumental, one-weekend effort. Perhaps a repeat of that type of thing?

(Although your "95% could care less" number is way, way off - it's more like 90%  :D  :P  ::)  .)

mungeclimber

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 09:23:57 AM »
As someone that doesn't get invites anymore to climb much more than the 90% 'obscurities' anyways I'm quite pleased with the rebolting of the obscurities since it will likely draw out more people away from the congested areas. But that doesn't mean now isn't the team to turn toward the remaining Monolith climbs. Thx for stirring it up!

My recommendation would be to try and identify a key stakeholder at each of the Bay Area climbing gyms to solicit funds and people (Brad doesn't have to pay for all the bolts in the area :) ). That may also identify who has bandwidth to go down midweek. Being able to go midweek means you have the opportunity to do glue ins for longevity.  Also, it seems that those that climb the hard lines regularly should/would be more interested in the effort since they are the ones hanging and whipping. There is always interest expressed, but the transfer of knowledge is not always easy to line up. So maybe it is a 3 day affaire?  Training day for newcomers. Then day of removal. Then day of placement. (assuming you have multiple volunteers and want to minimize the total number of days that monolith is down for maintenance). Even if down midweek, it would good to have a communications plan (i.e. posting to more broad audience than just mudncrud).

If you go on weekends and use mechanical bolts, then more of just labor being organized (experienced labor since we don't want a novice beating the crud out of the mud while extracting. Then again, sometimes it's hard not to break the mud. :) ).

One aspect Greg was concerned with in re: glue ins - lowering off. I.e. is there a specific crux that most get stumped by, and will end up lowering off through the glue in as strong newbie?  Something to consider if you go that way. i.e. should that crux bolt be a regular hanger mechanical to permit replacement over time and discourage lowering off the glue in and instead have folks be encouraged to use a leaver biner.

thoughts?
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clink

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 06:15:45 PM »
 Re bolting Bear Gulch is over due. Monolith has been vacant on occasion recently while other areas are being climbed. The question has been asked, where are the hard pulling sport climbers?
Causing trouble when not climbing.

NOAL

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 06:26:05 PM »
 Modernization of all the bolts on the Monolith is a great idea especially since there is the means now to pull wedge bolts and re-use holes.  I think so many obscure routes were rebolted because they had drivyn bolts that were easy to pull with a tuning fork re-use the hole and keep the bolt in the same location .

This would be a great project to do in the summer when there are less folks around.  I would definitely come help if needed.  I can hang on a rope and drill.  Would love to learn about glue ins.


mynameismud

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 06:55:26 PM »
Re bolting Bear Gulch is over due. Monolith has been vacant on occasion recently while other areas are being climbed. The question has been asked, where are the hard pulling sport climbers?

I am out of state, not sure what Gavin is doing.  ; )
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squiddo

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »
I am out of state, not sure what Gavin is doing.  ; )


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clink

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 11:14:27 PM »
Quote
I am out of state, not sure what Gavin is doing.  ; )

 He wouldn't be the first ranger to bolt. Is out of state of mind a place?  :)

 
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Atomizer

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 07:59:05 AM »
I'm happy to see that there is some interest in doing this.

 I'm unsure as to whether gluein hardware or traditional would be better. It takes a much more crafty approach to do glueins well and I'm not sure if there's a need. It's more of an effort vs finished product. And you can make a mess real quick. But they are so pretty and inspiring when done well. With two or three people working we could possibly do one route a day. And if it's cold enough for the glue to stay viscous the bolts could all be glued in one rappel with two people working simultaneously, quick and clean.

I think these routes have the most need:
Foreplay
POD
Hawaiian Noises
Hard Variation
Future Shock
Ranger Bolts
Cataract Corner?

I'd be interested in starting a fundraiser at Pacific Edge. Maybe Tom would be psyched to get some of his old metal replaced.

Anyhow if i make it to Mud Festival more can be discussed.


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mynameismud

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 08:45:54 AM »
When we did Lava Falls and Shake and Bake we pulled then drilled all the holes.  Then had one person with glue and one person with the bolt.  The actual bolting went fast. 
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Gavin

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2017, 06:06:21 AM »
Sorry for the delayed reply... Work has been busy. But I'm still around and climbing, most recently with Brad at Voyeur and up towards Shades. It was around 95 degrees yesterday, but should be better for getting back to Gulch climbing these next few days!

I'd be interested in assisting as well. I don't have experience with glue-ins either but wold be happy to help drill, place bolts, learn about glue-in placement, etc.

climberdude

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2017, 10:20:19 AM »
I do have experience with the ClimbTech Wave Bolts and their glue-in installation.  I have the placement tool for these as well as the caulking gun injector for the Powers AC 100+ glue.  The installation has to be done on rappel and you definitely want to wear disposable gloves while working with the glue, which is messy.  I would not suggest doing this work in the summer unless you use Hilti epoxies such as HY-200R due to the extremely short gel time of the Powers AC 100+ glue at higher temperatures.  At 86 oF the gel time of the AC 100+ glue is 4 minutes and at 104 oF the gel time is 1.5 minutes.  What this means is that at 86 oF you must have each bolt fully installed, cleaned up, and rappelled to the next bolt within 4 minutes - easier said than done.  This is important because the glue will harden in the mixing nozzle such that you do not want to be using a new mixing nozzle for each bolt.  If this work is done at a lower temperature in the winter, you have much longer time to work before the gel time is expired.

Rather, I suggest that hopefully we can find someone who has the necessary and expensive Hilti speciality injection gun (HDM and cartridge holder) and use a Hilti epoxy such as HY-200R or RE-500 V3, which will be more expensive, but will be longer lasting in the end and easier to work with.  The gel times of the Hilti products are at least two to three times that of Powers AC 100+ glue.

Another advantage of the Wave Bolts is that they are less visible compared to the hangers used with mechanical bolts.  Hikers will not notice the presence of the bolts on the rock.  I am willing to help out with this effort if people are interested.

F4?

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2017, 01:20:29 PM »
Ha Mark, we had the opposite issue with the powers glue...too cold!

On Lava Falls we ended up setting the glue-in's at dusk...so the glue got harder and harder to inject.

I'd help as well.

Truly a worthy project.

The bolts on Cantaloupe Death and that thin one next to it, look really nice.

I still miss those star driving on Subterannean Tango.
I'm not worthy.

Jim Thornburg

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2020, 11:17:34 AM »
It would be so great to update the bolts on the Monolith. Gavin, do you think there is any possibility to get a permit for power drills for 1 or 2 days? (like weekday in winter). I ask because i think it would be best to use burly twisted-leg glue-in bolts that require a 5/8" x 7" hole. It's a big hole, but the eye is much less obtrusive than a bolt and hanger. Some of the glue-in bolts on the monolith already wiggle (apparently still plenty strong), but I feel short, thin single stem glue ins are more appropriate for dense rock like granite or limestone. For soft rock like the Pinnacles, longer, thicker more stable bolts are a much better choice. I've placed 100s of them in soft rock around the bay - so much better than the single stem version. I have access to 5 power drills and know 5-10 people with experience. We could probably get it done in a couple of days. These bolts could potentially last 100 years.

Gavin

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2020, 07:53:58 AM »
Hey Jim, in regards to power drilling... I think that would be a tough sell with park management, especially since the management team would not likely see bolt replacement at Monolith as a critical need. But that is my instinct - I don't make those higher level decisions.  ;)

I wonder how long it would take to hand drill those holes?  :o Maybe with enough people drilling over a couple of days...

mungeclimber

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Re: Monolith Modernization
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2020, 08:18:47 PM »
Jim,
Hasn’t a special use permit been used in Nat Parks elsewhere for motos on a limited basis?

Gavin, doesn’t the park already have moto chainsaws for maintenance of removing broken limbs downed trees on roadways, etc?

Thus an absolute rule against limited use doesn’t really exist, if true. But the justification for use should be based on public safety purposes and on the certain idea that bad bolts will fail but the arbitrary nature of when fatigued gear might fail requires a more robust approach than one off hand drilling can sustain. Not to mention the peristent hammering over weeks and years vs a couple of days to finish the holes.
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