Who’s maintaining this place?

[Atomizer]

Joe and I stumbled up to the citadel yesterday and were surprised to learn that the area is defined by the “hangerless” bolt. I think every route we did or observed had one and they were even mentioned in the old brown guidebook. Is this an aesthetic choice by the first ascent parties? Or did they just fall off. Joe was able to climb through the gap on “Peons” but I was confronted with a much less desirable circumstance on “mission impossible” just moments later. The sixth bolt was gone from its hole, later to be found on the ground minus the hanger. My self preservation instincts told me to bail eventhough I’m sure I could have pulled through with the risk of a 30-40 foot fall on bolts that seems to enjoy being in the ground.   Not appealing. I’m curious where I request reimbursement for my carabiner. Is it directly to the guidebook author or does the NPS handle that?

As for the bolt we found at the base. Shaft from a five-piece. And it seemed to be broken off about 2” down from the head in the threaded portion. I did not get a good visual of the hole to see if the sheath was still in there.

[JC w KC redux]

^^^

That is weird Adam because Brad was just out there and said he replaced the bolts with missing hangers on Mission Impossible with ASCA 1/2 inch bolts. Maybe that scrap was something he dropped? He said it was the 1st and 3rd bolts that had missing hangers and those were the ones he replaced. He said he also replaced the top anchor (listed as hangerless in the guide). He said the only thing left was the one hangerless lead bolt on Peon's. The last time I was there I noticed the anchor hangers on Peon's or the whole top anchor could stand to be re-done. That anchor looks like it originally had the old-style Richards hangers on it and someone swapped to something more modern/less thick (Kong-Bonatti) - resulting in tight bolts with floppy hangers. Richards seemed to have had a habit of robbing his own hangers to swap things around or use elsewhere. I found 3 of those hangers on the Flumes (2nd bolt of Drizzly Drain and both lead bolts on Drizzly drain Direct Finish).

We'll have to wait for Brad to chime in but I would think he took a look at all the bolts on the route.


From the Master List
652/654 – Serra’s Guilt/Mission Impossible – top anchor replaced, 2/22/21, B Young
654 – Mission Impossible – bolts 1 and 3 replaced, 4/3/21, B Young


Didn't you have your bolt kit?
The way I look at it - we're all responsible for maintenance.
If everyone was equipped, skilled and willing to interrupt their fun and spend the time to replace things as they find problems, it would be a huge help.
That being said - I really appreciated you getting the problem taken care of on Cataract Corner.

[Brad Young]

If either of you was really "stunned," then you haven't climbed at Pinnacles as much as I thought.

Yes, the first ascent party on that route and several nearby had a bad habit of using poor quality hangers, or leaving them off in some situations. In order to avoid repeating the word "hangerless" in the new book, I've been replacing those in particular with new 1/2 inch stainless steel. The hangerless fifth bolt on Peon's is the only one in that area that I haven't gotten to.

Did you even notice that the first and third bolts on Mission Impossible (listed as "hangerless" in the new brown guidebook) were new? If you found a bolt at the base, it wasn't from my replacement of either of those two - I took the removed stuff with me from both bolts and didn't drop anything. I also patched the old holes to invisibility. And if that route's sixth bolt really is missing, then that's new as of the start of April (it was there as of April 3).

As to "reimbursement" for your leaver 'biner? No, the guidebook author isn't' responsible for that. In fact, you owe him double its value for being too obtuse to walk around to the top of Whitetail to rap off and inspect the situation (so you could report here more intelligently) while you retrieved your gear. I'll take my payment in beer. And no, nice intentions that didn't work out yesterday don't count as payment. You still owe me.

[JC w KC redux]

Jonathan Richards hanger on Drizzly Drain Direct Finish





Floppy hangers on Peon's Delight anchor. whoever swapped these needed to add washers to take up the space left from the original thicker hangers (Richards hangers are about twice as thick as most modern commercial hangers).

[Brad Young]

^^^

I'm hoping to replace those top anchor bolts if/when I get to replacing the hangerless bolt lower on the route. This season.

[Brad Young]

And tell Joe (since he rarely appears here) that "who cares" if he skipped a bolt on Peon's. Normally he skips every third bolt on most routes anyway. He's tougher than shit that way.

[JC w KC redux]

The story about bolt 6 sounds as suspicious as the experience we had yesterday in Marina.

Brad - didn't mean to imply that you dropped anything and left it but I know that stuff happens when rebolting or working on new routes.
My ratchet drive adaptor is still somewhere out from the base of The Great Humungous as is at least one brand new long 5 piece bolt at the base of Sidewinder.

At any rate, I appreciate the work.

[Brad Young]

Brad - didn't mean to imply that you dropped anything and left it but I know that stuff happens when rebolting or working on new routes.

Especially when rebolting. I've dropped and/or sent flying lots of "parts" when rebolting. It's just that it didn't happen here.

What went on in Marina yesterday?

[briham89]

Is this serious??

[clink]

Peons was in a little handwritten guidebook, showing the bolts before any were placed. Richards was ahead of his time.

[Atomizer]

Didn't you have your bolt kit?
The way I look at it - we're all responsible for maintenance.
If everyone was equipped, skilled and willing to interrupt their fun and spend the time to replace things as they find problems, it would be a huge help.
That being said - I really appreciated you getting the problem taken care of on Cataract Corner.

Hell no! I pay $80 bucks a year in maintenance fees to the NPS. I deserve bolts in all the holes without having to put them in myself!

But seriously, either the first ascensionist took the bolt out or it recently exited its hole via another mechanism. I wouldn't be surprised if Brad happened to just miss seeing the missing bolt...

We also did the new route to the left. Thought it was a little run out to the first gear placements after the last bolt.

[Brad Young]

^^^

Wow, an entire post with only one item of truth in the whole ("$80.00").

And BTW, never recommend that this guy carry his bolt kit. I still haven't inspected Cataract Corner to see if his work is OK or second (or third) class. Until that inspection is done, none of his work is considered acceptable.

[Atomizer]

^^^

Wow, an entire post with only one item of truth in the whole ("$80.00").

And BTW, never recommend that this guy carry his bolt kit. I still haven't inspected Cataract Corner to see if his work is OK or second (or third) class. Until that inspection is done, none of his work is considered acceptable.

Hahahahah, always so factual. If I correctly recall, the only time we placed bolts together, your's had to be removed...

[F4?]

Come on Adam, it's a new style. You place your bolts on lead. Follower, removes said bolts.
Aussies do it.
Your $80 went to toilet paper.

Glad to see Joe is back into bolt skipping form!

Happy to supervise replacing the Bolts on Mission Impossible.

I need to take James up Coastanoan and look at Power Tools.

[Brad Young]

Hahahahah, always so factual. If I correctly recall, the only time we placed bolts together, your's had to be removed...

It's sad to see this level of mental decline in one so young....

(Have you hit your 30s yet?)

[Atomizer]

Come on Adam, it's a new style. You place your bolts on lead. Follower, removes said bolts.
Aussies do it.
Your $80 went to toilet paper.

Glad to see Joe is back into bolt skipping form!

Happy to supervise replacing the Bolts on Mission Impossible.

I need to take James up Coastanoan and look at Power Tools.

I wonder when the NPS is going to figure out that their wax paper doesn't work.

It's also debatable whether that hanger-less bolt on Peons is even important

For some reason I had never climbed Coastanoan. That's a great route. Skipped Power tools because we're both out of shape. Based on the bolt quality of Mission Impossible, I don't have ton of interest. Let me know when your supervisory foray is complete. But i would join if there was a crew.

[Brad Young]

...based on the bolt quality of Mission Impossible, I don't have ton of interest.

Yes. Although Mission Impossible has great climbing, it's bolts are probably due for some attention. However, as for me, my priority there is just making sure that there are no more hangerless bolts (so those words no longer have to appear in the text). Although actually, I should look at what may be a missing bolt and will likely do so next time Gavin and I are in there working on the new route that you saw but did not climb.

And, for a bonus, the in-process route you saw but didn't climb: tell me its name? Joe may be able to guess based on the fact that it's right next to Mission Impossible. Since you're only in your 40s, you may not be old enough (you weren't around "then").

[Brad Young]

Especially when rebolting. I've dropped and/or sent flying lots of "parts" when rebolting. It's just that it didn't happen here.

Come to think of it, when I replaced the two top anchor bolts for Mission Impossible (both were hangerless), one was a stud bolt that I had to break off (you'll never find the resulting patch either). If I recall correctly, that bolt went flying off into space when it broke off  (and if my memory is correct, it doesn't include the where of where it flew off to).

Adam, what kind of bolt did you find below Mission Impossible, and did it include a hanger?

[Atomizer]

Come to think of it, when I replaced the two top anchor bolts for Mission Impossible (both were hangerless), one was a stud bolt that I had to break off (you'll never find the resulting patch either). If I recall correctly, that bolt went flying off into space when it broke off  (and if my memory is correct, it doesn't include the where of where it flew off to).

Adam, what kind of bolt did you find below Mission Impossible, and did it include a hanger?

Seemed like a 3/8" 5-piece rawl. Specifically the kind with the 3 apostrophes on the head which seem to be on many of the adjacent routes. It was about 2.5" to 3" long and seemed like it might have been broken because the distal end of the shaft surface was not very clean and had a stressed metal look. But it was rusty on that end. I was wondering if it was from the replacement work or the missing bolt. I don't feel like there was a sleeve in the empty hole, but I was more interested in down-climbing at that point than mounting an internal investigation. Is it possible that this bolt hole has been empty since the bolt war?

The bolt shaft was right at the base of the new route without a hanger. I left it on knob at the base of the wall. We never found the first bolt on the Impossible Mission, is that shared with the new route? We didn't clip it because it seemed off route. If it is shared, the seventh bolt is the one that is missing

[Brad Young]

Seemed like a 3/8" 5-piece rawl. Specifically the kind with the 3 apostrophes on the head which seem to be on many of the adjacent routes. It was about 2.5" to 3" long and seemed like it might have been broken because the distal end of the shaft surface was not very clean and had a stressed metal look. But it was rusty on that end. I was wondering if it was from the replacement work or the missing bolt. I don't feel like there was a sleeve in the empty hole, but I was more interested in down-climbing at that point than mounting an internal investigation. Is it possible that this bolt hole has been empty since the bolt war?

The bolt shaft was right at the base of the new route without a hanger. I left it on knob at the base of the wall. We never found the first bolt on the Impossible Mission, is that shared with the new route? We didn't clip it because it seemed off route. If it is shared, the seventh bolt is the one that is missing

-  I'll have to check when I am there next, but what you found does not sound like any residual of my rebolting efforts.

-  Mission Impossible's start, up the tiny right-facing corner, was always left from the old first bolt. I had a hard time finding the right rock for the first Mission Impossible bolt replacement and had move it left some. On our new route we just used that replacement bolt too - but then continued up and left. So yes, the two first bolts are now shared.

-  I was skeptical at your early posts because I did in fact check out all the first six Mission Impossible bolts (inspecting by sight from below just to see what I could see). I don't remember seeing or being able to see a seventh bolt (or any above either). At the time I attributed this to it being just too far up to see from below. You may have found a better explanation.

-  Not brave enough to guess at our ingenious new route name, huh?