Qualifications to be a Master of Mud?

[karl]

I still have not figured out the sequence for the moves past the bottom of the route, which is the crux for me.

About three years ago, someone broke a micro micro hold that I used for the beginning.  To do it with what is left of it or the hold below is much harder than it used to be.  I used to climb up to a mini left hand and pull hard to a small edge.



There is another way that is easier, but not as direct.  It takes several more moves, but is easier.  In the end, it doesn't really change the grade of that section.  1 hard move or 5 slightly easier moves.



Karl



P.S. Since you've climbed it, do you think I should add a bolt near the top?

[The Big]

I have not climbed the route clean.  I have tried to lead it a couple of times and it kicked my ass.   I have mostly top-roped.   So with climbing bolt to bolt as a reference I think it is good as it is.  If I ever get it on lead I will most likely be to pumped to clip anything else near the top.  How it was, I was trying to figure out what I could possibly skip without hitting the ground.  I found the upper part do-able but it is sustained difficult climbing.  The start is frustratingly difficult.



I too , have came to two different starts.  I can do the difficult reach move.  Well ok, I got into that, then was unable to move out of that position after serveral try's on different days.  I also worked on a slightly easier varient that involved  more moves.  Did not get that either.  Wonder if I am trying the same sequences.

[karl]

If I ever get it on lead I will most likely be to pumped to clip anything else near the top.

The bolt I am talking about is on the slab at the very top.  It is only like 5.6-5.8, but a fall going to the very top would be unpleasant.

How it was, I was trying to figure out what I could possibly skip without hitting the ground.  I found the upper part do-able but it is sustained difficult climbing.

There is after the 5th bolt that gets you ready for the business.  As for skipping bolts, it would be scary.  Originally, I tried to send the route with only the first 5 bolts drilled.... That was insane.



I don't know if you are trying to install the draws on lead.  I read a discussion about this before on this site.  I have lead it while hanging the draws, and it's not worth it.  These days most people don't distinguish between PinkPoints and RedPoints on sport climbs.  The main reason is that most hard sport climbs are permantly equiped.  



If you want to hang draws on redpoint, I'd skip the 6th draw.  The rest are easy to hang.  As for hanging the 7th draw, just do it from the jug just over the roof.

The start is frustratingly difficult ... Wonder if I am trying the same sequences.

I'd be glad to talk with you about it.

[Brad Young]

Masters of Mud ALWAYS distinguish between redpoint and pinkpoint.

[The Big]

When I was trying to lead it I was placing draws on lead.  I do remember a clip being very difficult.



The upper slab did not bother me.  Getting to it did.  



If I end up over there I will let you know.  I am just coming off the couch right now.  If I lead it I will skip the 6th.  Thank you for the beta.



Right now I am trying to loose some weight so I can give Ranger Bolts a good effort.

[karl]

Masters of Mud ALWAYS distinguish between redpoint and pinkpoint.

So the masters of mud distinguish the difference, but what about you in reference to your guidebook?  



More specifically in terms of FA's, FFA's, and First Leads.  Having been present for several ascents of Ubermensch and Lard Butt, I doubt they have ever been lead  clean without preplaced draws.  I am not sure that they can be safely lead without them.

[Brad Young]

Interesting observation. I'm leaving most of the FA information to CC actually - he's kept careful records for 20 years. I don't know whether he knows of any redpoints of either. I'll raise the issue with him and see if it matters. About half a dozen others are going to look the FA appendix over when it's done. I'll raise the issue with them too - it's a legit point to discuss.



I stated my own style there. I know it's Mr Mud's too. To my knowledge anybody else who would think of themselves as a Master of Mud wouldn't claim a redpoint unless it really was. I can get harsh with folks who screw with climbing ethics at Pinns, but style - that doesn't affect others and it doesn't affect the rock. Other peoples style choices don't bother me a hoot.

[karl]

To my knowledge anybody else who would think of themselves as a Master of Mud wouldn't claim a redpoint unless it really was.

I would agree.  My point was that for sport climbs, pinkpoints are considered redpoints because most hard sport routes are equiped all of the time.  Of course, the distinction is still very clear when it comes to gear and mixed gear/sport routes.

... but style - that doesn't affect others and it doesn't affect the rock. Other peoples style choices don't bother me a hoot.

Again, I agree.  As long as what other people are doing doesn't affect me or permanently change the rock and/or it's surroundings, who cares?  I was just curious how you were dealing with this issue given your views.

[F4?]

We should get Mr Mud a bumper sticker "There's only 1 Mast of Mud"



Karl, it's good to have you here giving a fresh view to things. When are you able to start climbing?



For me (like my opinion means anyting) it's all about having fun and not getting killed, maybe maimed, but still alive.



I always think of the Red Rock ethics that were used in the beginning when Dreams of Turkeys and Lev 29 were established. It was all about creating something people would repeat.

[karl]

We should get Mr Mud a bumper sticker "There's only 1 Mast of Mud"

How about "There can be only 1 Master of Mud"?

Karl, it's good to have you here giving a fresh view to things. When are you able to start climbing?

I just got back to it about a month ago, but it is still really painful.  I can't climb very much and  I'm not sure how long it will be before I can start to push on climbs again.  Whatever, after a year on the couch, I'll take anything.  

[The Big]

My understanding has always been that at the Pins the draws had to be placed on lead for it to be an FFA.  That view though is from the "core" or more high profile climbers.  Who knows what the various misfits have done.

I watched Yabo and those guys on Ranger Bolts so I know that was done placing draws on lead.  I suppose some of the FFA's were actually somewhat seiged since if a person falls they usually lower off and leave the top draw then pull the rope.  Few people actually remove that draw and replace it with a new one although there are a few nuts out there that do.  I do suppose though that most of the die hard Pins climbers are a bit nutty.

I have no idea about Ubermensch or Lard Butt.

[F4?]

My understanding has always been that at the Pins the draws had to be placed on lead for it to be an FFA. That view though is from the "core" or more high profile climbers. Who knows what the various misfits have done.

So to be a true acent it has to be done in the 1st acent's style?



Does that mean you have to use oval's and hand tied slings?



The needs to be a "rule book" of climbing at the Pinns. Maybe at the visitor's center? The true mud masters can meet on a full moon ontop of the Monolith and decide on the "rules".  Kinda like "man rules"?

[karl]

I suppose some of the FFA's were actually somewhat seiged since if a person falls they usually lower off and leave the top draw then pull the rope.

I think a lot of routes are lead while hanging draws.  However, for sport routes many people just leave the draws in and give the route other attempts that day.  They just don't think about it.



Since my first years of climbing involved a lot of climbing at Pinns, you can have seen the following:

     Imagine me eight years younger

     In Smith Rock

     Sport climbing with a helmet

     Rapping after every lead

     Stripping draws for my partner's lead or subsequent attempts

[karl]

So to be a true acent it has to be done in the 1st acent's style?

No one wants to see me in Lycra or Paisely.

[The Big]

I do not think I want to any of this cast of characters in lycra of any kind.  Well ok, the gals yes.  But other than that, NO.

[mungeclimber]

I have worn lycra.



It was black. Can I get a free pass to avoid penalties since I was still in "DIE" black colors.

[The Big]

No.



DIE

[Brad Young]

Free pass? You've heard of the Chance Brothers? Slim, Fat and No.

[salad]

uber is a master of mud...just a different kind of mud.

[Ubergoober]

uber is a master of mud...just a different kind of mud.

You would know. Nothing like a good tossed salad. Meow.