Author Topic: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18  (Read 5893 times)

burnsbabe

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Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« on: April 19, 2023, 09:16:49 AM »
Hey folks! My climbing partner Hung and I made a little two day Pinns trip we just got back from and I thought I'd drop you a trip report. I'm the planner as far as routes and such, not him, so I had some intentions, but nothing hyper-specific going in. Here's how it went down.

This was a somewhat last-minute trip as far as planning is concerned. It started about ten days ago when I realized I had Sunday-Tuesday (16th-18th) off from work. Just happened to be scheduled that way. I messaged my buddy to see if he was down, and he was. All the campsites in the park were booked for the days we wanted, except a couple group sites, which were far too pricy for just  the pair of us, so I looked for other options. I found a HipCamp at Bar SZ Ranch about ten minutes down the road from the park, and it wasn't too bad. It turned out to be a great experience.

We drove down Sunday evening after doing a bunch of packing and housework ahead of time. The drive went fine, but we did leave later than intended, meaning we put up the tent in the dark after struggling a bit to find the campsite on the ranch. They need more/better signs. Tent up, we went to sleep and woke up the next morning around 7am. Having been to Pinnacles before, we were determined to get into the park early.

After changing clothes and such, we got to the park around 8am to find that the park isn't busy at all at 8am on a Monday morning. I've been here during the week before, but must not have noticed. We got to park in the little front lot at Bear Gulch even. After doing some breakfast and hygene in the parking lot and packing some snacks and such, we decided to head for the Monolith. Most of what's on the Monolith has been too hard for me to try and climb in the past, or swarmed with folks on a weekend, but not today. We took the Bear Gulch trail through the caves, got there no problem and there were no climbers to be seen. Hung has climbed here in the long past pre-COVID days, and suggested that I could lead the Direct Route (5.7) to get to the top and set up anchors for top ropes. With a stick clip, it seemed doable. I took it slowly, took a couple of times, and got to the top no problem. But this felt like the most sandbagged 5.7 I'd ever climbed. I chalked it up to 50s grading, lowered off, and belayed for Hung. He moved the quad over to the next set of anchors for POD, which I did really want to give a try, having been emboldened by sending 11a clean in Red Rocks recently.

It's at this point that, planning on working through the routes moving left to POD that I was able to figure out that we'd climbed the Terranean portion of Subterranean Tango instead of the Direct Route. This made a lot of sense based on a couple of questions I'd had, but here we were, apparently warming up on roughly 10a outdoors. (Side question, does everyone just stickclip the 1st/3rd bolt on this one when working the lower portion now? Man those first two rusty bolt hangers look sketchy!) Okay. With that sorted, we moved over to Hawaiian Noises (5.10d). It's listed as PG13 online, and I can see why. The second bolt is halfway up the face! It looks like if you blew that second bolt you'd definitely be in groundfall territory, so thankfully we were toproping. Hawaiian Noises went about as well as the Tango had on lead. I hung a couple times figuring out how best to pull on certain chockstones, wowed some tourists, and got the top. Hung followed, made a comment or two about how glad he was to not be leading it, and that was that. Two routes down.

At this point, we slid over to POD. I've had an eye toward this route for at least a year now, but it's been far harder than anything I'd been able to send at the park until now. I was grateful to not be trying to flash it on lead, but at least the bolts and hangers looked good and were more reasonably spaced than Hawaiian Noises. Well, let me tell you that the onsight attempt was not a thing of beauty. I spent so much time trying to figure out which of the massively chalked up cobbles were actually good, and from what angles, that I don't think I climbed more than two bolts clean without taking. I spent a good bit of time clipped into a bolt with my personal anchor as more tourists marveled at how cool we were. I did all the moves, and got to the top, but I'd describe the effort as "strenuous". Hung went next. He had a memory of getting a lot farther on this one than expected the five or so years ago he'd climbed here last, and made shorter work of it than I did. Still not clean, but he looked much better. It should be said that POD fits his general style better than mine. But hey, that's how you improve, right?

We lunched, napped for a couple in the sun, and I suited up for a second go, as this was the route I'd really come for more than anything. Could I do it more cleanly? Hung provided some coaching, suggesting generally higher feet (always a good idea), and finding more layback-y, hip in positions. It helped. The climbing from bolts 1 to 4 didn't go super cleanly still, but it was better. Bolt 4 to the anchor I managed without a problem. All of a sudden, this felt doable. We were tired and didn't want to have another go that day, but you can bet I'll be back. Pinnacles isn't that far from home, and mother nature resets a lot less often than in my gym. We hiked the rest of the way to the reservoir and lounged around a bit, talked about options for  the next day, and enjoyed ourselves for a bit before heading back via the Moses Spring Trail and scouting a little under Discovery Wall. We made a camp dinner, and built a fire in the communal pit at the ranch with the wood we'd bought at the Camp Store, and had a generally good night.

Day 2 we woke up a little later, as we'd seen how empty the lot was the previous morning. We packed up the tent and belongings pretty quickly, and rolled in around 9:15. It was busier, but were still able to snag a spot in that small lot at the front of Bear Gulch. We'd talked about possibly driving around to the West Side and hitting up Whitetail Rock, as Mission Impossible and Get Smart look really appealing, but I'd spied all the well regarded easy things that have been put upon Crud and Mud since Brad's book was published, and, down for a more adventurous if less physically difficult day of climbing, advocated for that. We hiked through the caves again, out to the reservoir, and all the way out to the end. The trail was surprisingly good, if obviously less used than the ones we'd been familiar with in Bear Gulch. Heading uphill after getting to the end of the reservoir, I thought we were initially heading to The Frog, but figured out as we made it to the ridgetop which formation was which. My endurance for uphill hiking has gotten a lot better since I started climbing, but I'm still just not very good at it. It took a while to do those 200 yards of switchbacks though the brush. After arriving, I did some route finding and located Solotero Pina Especial based on the beta from Brad's book. Doing route finding based entirely on text is a lot harder than it is with pictures. With that route identified, I was able to figure out that the newer bolts on the arete at the base of the gully between the north and middle summits was Bathing Beauty (5.9), and  that moving up the gully were Mud Bath (5.8), Pay Dirt (5.7), and Squeaky Clean Mud (5.6).

We decided to start with Squeaky Clean and work our way down the gully. We took just the stuff we'd need, and hauled it all the way up there. Not the simplest thing to do. I lead and sent the route, finding just the two bolts with hangers and nothing else at the top. I lowered off a couple of draws, and Hung went up after me. He also sent, but I had missed the info about descending by rapping off Bathing Beauty. Hung wasn't super pleased with the setup up top, but went in direct, slowly passed the rope through the hangers, and rapped off, cleaning as he went. When he got to the ground it was *very* hard to pull the rope through and back down. That done, we decided to move on down to Pay Dirt. With spotty coverage, I'd lost the page from this forum I'd had pulled up with descriptions of the routes (and the key descent beta). I told him he could lead this time, and I'd deal with the annoying rap. He did, just fine, and I went after, no problem. I did the same thing at the top, pulling a bunch of rope, setting up a rap (I can do this now, cleanly, without issue!), and getting back down. Since the first one had been so annoying, I'd pulled all the rope up the route minus what was needed to reach the ground figuring we'd save a lot of hard pulling the second time. Except this time, even with both of us leaning hard on it, the rope wouldn't budge. Welp.

This is the first time I've had a stuck rope. I've not been climbing outdoors all that long, in the grand scheme of things. We looked around for a minute or two, thought about some options, and decided our best bet (short of soloing the gully on the other side, which Hung, being a notoriously conservative climber, didn't want to do if we didn't have to), was to prussik back up the rope, descend to the Bathing Beauty anchor that we'd seen by now, and lower or rappel off that. I offered to do the hard work. I've never used a Prussik as an ascender before. I know how it works, and understand the theory, so it was time to try hard. We set up two to have a backup, and I sudo-aided my way back up the route I'd just climbed. It was easier and more successful than I'd expected. In direct again, I pulled the rope up, unthreaded the anchor we were in, and then carefully worked my way the 8-ish feet down to Bathing Beauty. In direct there, I coiled half the rope, and chucked it off the side for Hung to pick up, threaded the other end through the chains, and tied in to lower. And that was that. Back on the ground, with all our stuff, we sat and had lunch. All in all not that hard, just kind of complicated. Definitely the weirdest "mess" I've gotten into outside as of yet.

So here's the question for JC & KC (feel free to speculate, everyone). I know y'all know what you're doing as far as bolting and such, so why set these up like this? They're not great as top ropes. Even with a really extended anchor, the rope rag is going to be a lot higher than average. I  don't figure material cost is it, or you wouldn't be bolting a crag that far out. We spent all afternoon trying to think what the intention was, and all we could come up with was that the expectation is to lead, belay a follower from above, then descend to the rap station and rap off. Even like this though, you just have to hoof it back up the gully to do the next route, etc. What are we missing? I'd *love* to know. Additionally, are there any reason these aren't on Mountain Project? I try to  track everything so I can look back and see what I did. I'd put them up if there's no objection.

After lunch, we took on Bathing Beauty (we skipped Mud Bath after all the faffing around). It was definitely a touch stouter than everything else, but the crux was probably in the first two bolts and the rest was fine. All in all, high quality routes for a relatively sparsely visited crag, with mostly pretty solid rock in a park not always well known for it. Definitely mossier and lichen-ier than the more well travelled stuff, but very climbable and the views from a different part of the park were beautiful. We could have stayed longer, but had the hour hike out of the park plus two hours at least back to the East Bay, so we called it there, packed up, and hiked back out. We took Moses Spring again, this time without the Discovery Wall detour. I've never seen the park so green. The water in the cave was higher than I've seen it before too, and there were wildflowers everywhere. I can link to photos if anyone's interested.

Brad Young

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2023, 09:49:57 AM »
Very nice report! Photos though!! Not that I haven’t seen these routes, but photos are always great. Embedded too. It’s not that hard to embed them and linking them makes it hard for old people (elder abuse?).

Keep up the good work.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2023, 09:51:15 AM »
I'll try when I get home. I just assume they're larger than the embed will allow. I can probably resize them as needed.

Brad Young

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2023, 09:56:25 AM »
I may have used the wrong word by "embed."

The site doesn't hold photos itself, they have to be placed on a photos site like Flickr and then the photo address on Flickr placed between what I call image brackets like these:



There are directions on this site. It sounds complex but once one figures it out, it's quite simple.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2023, 09:58:37 AM »
Ahh. I can do that too, it's just slightly different. I just don't use Flickr or Imgur or anything much anymore. But, in an endeavor to avoid abusing my betters, I'll get it set up.

Brad Young

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2023, 10:04:39 AM »
Also, in response to two questions you raised:

- In my experience most people do not stick clip. They don't for the very obvious reason that, with a stick clip (often called a cheater stick), one hasn't led the route. Instead, one has partly toproped it and partly led it. Sounds like you were working the routes you stick clipped though and so they weren't clean leads anyway.

- I often don't set up anchors for ease of yo-yo toproping (which is what you were talking about on the Crud and Mud routes). Quality rock for the bolts always comes first and then, often, a nice place for a belayer to sit or at least position themselves. Wanna toprope? Have the belayer on top instead of yo-yoing from the ground, and/or extend with more than one runner. It's not that hard to rig either way. And, with the 5.6 way up the gully (Squeaky Clean Mud), a yo-yo toprope requires staying in that gully and, possibly, moving up and down that repeatedly. Much easier to just have the second follow the route in that case and then both move to the rap anchor and rappel to level ground instead of to the top of that gully.

That's my two cents (although you didn't ask me).



Brad Young

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2023, 10:05:43 AM »

Ahh. I can do that too, it's just slightly different. I just don't use Flickr or Imgur or anything much anymore. But, in an endeavor to avoid abusing my betters, I'll get it set up.


Yes please. Photos are fun and they help make long texts more enjoyable.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2023, 11:02:45 AM »
Also, in response to two questions you raised:

- In my experience most people do not stick clip. They don't for the very obvious reason that, with a stick clip (often called a cheater stick), one hasn't led the route. Instead, one has partly toproped it and partly led it. Sounds like you were working the routes you stick clipped though and so they weren't clean leads anyway.

Wow Brad, I didn't have you pegged for one of the anti-stick clip elitists.  ;)  As I said, my partner's a notoriously conservative leader, and I like not hitting the ground from 20'. While there are certainly some bros who don't consider a clean lead after clipping the first bolt to be a send, I think you'll find a lot of newer climbers don't hold that opinion.

- I often don't set up anchors for ease of yo-yo toproping (which is what you were talking about on the Crud and Mud routes). Quality rock for the bolts always comes first and then, often, a nice place for a belayer to sit or at least position themselves. Wanna toprope? Have the belayer on top instead of yo-yoing from the ground, and/or extend with more than one runner. It's not that hard to rig either way. And, with the 5.6 way up the gully (Squeaky Clean Mud), a yo-yo toprope requires staying in that gully and, possibly, moving up and down that repeatedly. Much easier to just have the second follow the route in that case and then both move to the rap anchor and rappel to level ground instead of to the top of that gully.

We weren't toproping the stuff at Crud and Mud. We lead all of that clean. I can see some value in avoiding ending up back in the gully, but, if I want to climb each route in succession, I'm going to either way. it also means only one of the two partners gets to lead a given climb unless you both want to do it twice (putting you back in the gully again). Additionally, having to unclip and descend to the rap anchor below, while not too hard, has potential consequences. To be clear, I'm not trying to argue. I see what you're getting at, but think, given sufficiently high quality rock, setting anchors up with at least a set of links or rings is preferable. Maybe I'm just a noob?

JC w KC redux

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2023, 12:46:30 PM »
Let's see if I can help.
There are 3 rappel stations on that section of Crud and Mud.
The three are Bathing Beauty, Here's Mud in Your Eye and Access Hollywood (rappels down Hollywood Stars).
The whole top of that formation can be walked around on.
You could easily lead all the routes in the gully by leaving draws on each anchor and then walking back up when you're done. If you don't have half a dozen spare draws, another option would be to start at Squeaky and leave the draws. Both lead Pay Dirt - grab draws from Squeaky anchor and leave on Pay Dirt and so forth down the line. End on Bathing Beauty or walk to Here's Mud In Your Eye or Access Hollywood.

Instead of trying to pull through hangers - carry some webbing in case you climb something and it doesn't have chains - Primrose Pinnacle comes to mind. In days of yore there were no chains on anything and climbers expected to leave webbing at any anchor.
Be prepared.

My recommendation would be to print all the descriptions and not rely on internet connections.
My "guidebook" is a few printed pages folded up in my pocket.

It's very common to not have every anchor set up to rappel.
If you want other examples walk along the top of Discovery Wall, Upper Crust, Passion Play Wall, The Shepherd, Routes that go all the way to the top of the Flumes and many other routes that are established walkoffs. Just a few of many examples - Stretch Seven, Deep Groove Wall, Beyond Destiny, 250 Too Quick, Begin It Now, The Proctor.

As to the yo-yo issue Brad already answered that nicely but if a route isn't straight up or nearly so - it won't make for a good setup and may have to be followed (can't be cleaned on rappel). Frog routes are a nice example and the route Kat and I climbed Saturday (Potluck Panic). It's good to be prepared for that.

For us - adventure is a big part of climbing and that means you follow a natural line - which may or may not be conducive to cleaning on rappel (quite often the latter).

Hope that helps.
 

 

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JC w KC redux

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2023, 01:02:26 PM »
I'd also like to share that the gullies out there (not just that one) are a bit of a pain.
The climbs are fun though so it makes it worth it.

Solotero is fun but is typically covered in pine needles higher up. Take a bunch of shoulder slings to sling knobs. I think I had 6 slings and ran out. The rock is really good but it is runout. Anchor is not setup for rappel. The "walkoff" climbs down to the base of Squeaky.

Another place that is fun with a really annoying gully (loose talus everywhere) is Spike's Peak - all the new routes to the left of Little Javelina. Some amazing climbing there but most of the routes do not have chains on the anchors. Little Javelina is a long - established walkoff.

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clink

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2023, 02:37:07 PM »

 I use a stick clip for securing my tie when dressing formal.
Causing trouble when not climbing.

JC w KC redux

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2023, 03:13:49 PM »
^
You should try using it on your mouth.  :ciappa:
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burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2023, 03:14:47 PM »
This is all extremely helpful, JC. I've done quite a bit of outdoor climbing for how long I've been climbing total, but will freely admit that it's mostly been in well traffic'd areas where the worst you might need to do was go in direct, untie, and thread through for a lower or rap, or clip a draw between your side of the rope and the other to keep you close enough to clean.

I absolutely had fun, and the adventure was a huge part of that. I'm not really mad at all, just looking to better understand the intention behind the setup so I can do better next time.


Instead of trying to pull through hangers - carry some webbing in case you climb something and it doesn't have chains - Primrose Pinnacle comes to mind. In days of yore there were no chains on anything and climbers expected to leave webbing at any anchor.
Be prepared.

I do have a few slings I carry, and could have left something (or gotten it back via another route later). I typically think of leaving gear as for bailing, but you're of course right and leaving gear used to be far more common and makes sense as an acceptable plan.


My recommendation would be to print all the descriptions and not rely on internet connections.
My "guidebook" is a few printed pages folded up in my pocket.

For us - adventure is a big part of climbing and that means you follow a natural line - which may or may not be conducive to cleaning on rappel (quite often the latter).

Hope that helps.

It absolutely helps. Thanks for the thorough reply. I'm definitely not printing things (I don't even own one), but could have screenshotted the page while I had it pulled up for offline access. Anyway, we had a blast, even if we did fewer routes than expected, and we're all safe and sound.

JC w KC redux

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2023, 05:27:56 PM »
^
Trying to answer your PM but I keep getting an Internal Server Error - arghhhh!
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Brad Young

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2023, 06:16:36 PM »

Wow Brad, I didn't have you pegged for one of the anti-stick clip elitists.  ;)



And you’d be sadly mistaken to conclude that now. Stick clips are a question of style. They don’t affect the rock in any way. As far as I’m concerned, people are welcome to use any style they want (any style, s-t-y-l-e, style... ethical issues, issues that affect the rock such as chipping holds, are different). Using any style one wants includes using a stick clip. But if one does, one should not pretend that they've done something that they have not done (in other words, if using a stick clip, act like burnsbabe did in her trip report and claim it, don't claim a clean lead).

But you asked a question in your first post: “Side question, does everyone just stickclip the 1st/3rd bolt on this one when working the lower portion now?”

In my view the answer to your question is no. Unequivocally no. And that's what I posted.

No, everyone doesn't just stickclip the 1st/3rd bolt. They don't because most climbers want to be able to say truthfully: "I led that route." They don't want to say that they led the route... and then put in a bunch of reservations. Reservations like:

-  I stick clipped the first through third bolts;

-  I pulled on quickdraws;

-  I hung between bolts; or even

- I used a ladder for the first 10 feet.

The vast majority of climbers wouldn't do any of the things above and then say they'd "led" the route. They recognize that "a lead" means a clean lead, not one made easier by modified tactics. Those climbers might use the word "led," but they'd then insert the reservations (like you did in your trip report). In other words, the vast majority of climbers want a pure lead, not one they cheated on. So they simply don't stick clip.

I'll also add that, although I'm not sure what "bros" are (doesn't sound like a compliment, but I'm old and not very knowledgable), I think my comments apply to young, old, male, female and just the vast majority of climbers. As an example, I've climbed with almost 100 different climbers in the last 12 months. These climbers ranged in age from 17 to 76, about 40% were female (probably not bros?), and they represented a huge variety of climbing skills, preferences and levels of experience. About half of them were under 30 years old and had been climbing for five or fewer years.

One of these climbers used a stick clip (and she'd wacked her ankle in a non-climbing fall and wasn't willing to have it wacked again - her choice). None of the others did. None of the others pre-clipped lower bolts to objectively make climbing the route easier.

So, I'm not sure who the "lot" of newer climbers you refer to are, the ones who think a stick clip lead is "clean," but I do know that "a lot" might not really be a lot in context. It might be a small number, a literal few when compared to the really large number of climbers who are out there. In other words, "a lot" isn't a number. I've met very few climbers who use cheat sticks and I suspect that very few of them (none that I've met) would call a stick-clipped "lead" "clean."

And all of this was behind my original answer to your "side" question. My answer was no, "everyone" does not do what you theorized. I then offered a bit of an explanation of why they do not do so.

As a last comment, I not only don't mind what style people climb in, I especially don’t mind it when people say what they did plainly and honestly. When they don't claim something that is objectively untrue. I like what you did in your report, put it out there that you were "working" a route and that's why you took short-cuts (I've done it myself, although my "shortcuts" are usually just working a route on toprope which normally seems easier to set up to me). Stated another way, I wasn't finding fault with your tactics, definitely not. Instead I was answering your question as honestly as I could based on my understanding of the climbing community.

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2023, 08:38:16 PM »
Nice Trip Report.  I read the whole thing!

I like especially that you ventured out to one of the areas with newer routes.  I would suggest The Frog next.  I really like the 10b  Get a Grip out there.  I think that it might be the best 10b at Pinnacles.

There's a lot of climbs at Pinnacles that are not so great for Yo-Yo top roping.  One consideration that is often overlooked is lowering off vs rappelling.  Lowering off or scraping/swinging  a rope back and forth across faces at less traveled areas can dislodge rocks and destroy your rope.

How was staying at the ranch? Been wanting to try that out.

Hope to see more trip reports.  Have fun!


burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2023, 08:59:54 PM »

No, everyone doesn't just stickclip the 1st/3rd bolt. They don't because most climbers want to be able to say truthfully: "I led that route." They don't want to say that they led the route... and then put in a bunch of reservations. Reservations like:

-  I stick clipped the first through third bolts;

So noted. I asked in this case because the first two bolts you'd use for the subterranean portion have extremely rusty hangers on them. Given the popularity of the area, I'd have assumed they'd be replaced by someone by now (I know you do a lot of that work, and thanks for that!) if they got used much.

I think our opinion on the stick clip is just different. I'm not really ever going to fault someone for clipping the first bolt. Clipping multiples would classify an attempt as not clean to me. But I would, just as I did above, freely admit to having stick clipped the first bolt.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2023, 09:03:42 PM »

How was staying at the ranch? Been wanting to try that out.

Hope to see more trip reports.  Have fun!

I really liked the ranch. Flat open fields to pitch your tent, a shockingly well stocked outdoor kitchen, reasonably clean bathroom options, and a river runs through the whole thing. They had so many different kinds of animals on the ranch, including a very tiny cow they assured us was full grown. It was shorter than I am. I'd definitely recommend it.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2023, 10:43:44 AM »
Now that Flickr's behaving (don't get me started), looking to see if I can upload some photos.



This is looking south from the top of the Monolith at the chains for Subterranean Tango.

burnsbabe

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Re: Trip Report - East Side 4/17 & 18
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2023, 10:47:58 AM »
And it works! Here's a few more from that trip (though I didn't photograph much).

The Reservoir, looking high after all the rain. We chilled here for a bit on day one after hard climbing.



Looking back toward the Reservoir from the top of Crud and Mud. Gorgeous.



And looking up Squeeky Clean Mud, 5.6. This was a fun route, except for my troubles noted above.