Munge isn't allowed to post anymore until/unless he get's that other forum up and running. And while I'm bitching, change your sign off. The Groove isn't the shittiest route in the monument - it's not even your vote on this subject. I watched you lead the first pitch of Herschel Berschel where you were climbing on moss, birdshit, and (somewhere underneath it all) rock that was less than perfect. All with essentially no pro where it mattered. I was reminded of this a month ago when I let Mr Mud talk me into leading this pitch. No matter how bad you think the Groove is, struggle back in the inner recesses of your memory: Hershel Berschel beats it hands down.