Author Topic: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)  (Read 2752206 times)

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1000 on: December 14, 2018, 04:42:13 PM »
I'm just back to the office after being in court all day. Still working on the Ribbit and Croak description. I'll try to get that up this weekend. And it's true, my description will likely provide less detail than did J.C.'s.

Although he thought no stars, I'm still debating it. Almost 200 feet of climbing, much of it on pretty good rock. I've settled in at "3/4 of a star." Probably should just round down and leave it to speak for itself?

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1001 on: December 14, 2018, 05:51:22 PM »
I'm just back to the office after being in court all day. Still working on the Ribbit and Croak description. I'll try to get that up this weekend. And it's true, my description will likely provide less detail than did J.C.'s.

Although he thought no stars, I'm still debating it. Almost 200 feet of climbing, much of it on pretty good rock. I've settled in at "3/4 of a star." Probably should just round down and leave it to speak for itself?

I'd like to make the Brown Rice and Boogers argument for the defense. Three quarters definitely rounds up - plus it will confuse the he!! out of people that go climb it. TSAL - now there is one for the ages  :yesnod: :lol:

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1002 on: December 14, 2018, 06:06:13 PM »
OK then, I'll give it a star. I liked it and I know that Bob did too. It's an inventive line, and long. Once the section of loose stuff cleans up, I think newer leaders will find it fun, and a good introduction to keeping one's head together on traverses.

And what is "TSAL?"

clink

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1003 on: December 14, 2018, 10:19:07 PM »
Quote
And what is "TSAL?"

 In this context, my guess would be something to do with "You can fool some of the people all of the time".
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1004 on: December 16, 2018, 07:57:25 AM »
I made changes to the Full Circle description just now.

It got its first full, onsight ascent yesterday. I gave Joe (not "D," this Joe is not on this site that I know of) a copy of the topo, but with the ratings removed.

He and his wife thought the pitches were 5.9+, 5.10b, and 5.9+. He thought three stars for sure. Gavin and I trust our ratings pretty well (Joe's very strong and has climbed almost all of the multi-pitch Balconies routes with seemingly little effort). Note also that Gavin's friend Janice (listed as part of the FA) thought that the first pitch was "three-star" worthy.

Based on the above, I changed the first pitch rating to 5.10b (even Jim McCon. had given it that). And there's no way I could ever go with three stars, so I bumped it to two.

We'll see how any of this changes (if at all) by the time I get to documenting the West Side for the guidebook.

Gavin

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1005 on: December 16, 2018, 09:15:33 AM »
Thanks for the revisions, Brad... As we talked about on email, I think the route rating and pitch grades are pretty accurate now, but I'll be climbing the full route again on Christmas Eve with Janice (barring another storm front) and will reply with any extra thoughts we have on the subject.

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1006 on: December 16, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »
We saw a party on the route (Full Circle) yesterday while climbing at Chockstone. I could hear the leader talking about how much fun the second pitch was - evidently there are lots of holes and cool holds. I was hoping to get to talk to them but it didn't happen.

We ended the day with a run up Self Selecting Substrate - it was REALLY good to see beano back on the sharp end again.
I found something interesting on the route. Two of the upper lead bolts had hangers that were moving. It was the typical surface disintegration that is so common at Pinns. Unreal how quickly that can happen - this route is only a few years old and probably has not seen that many ascents. Both sleeve bolts were tight (I checked with my OCD wrench) - so the only way to correct it would be to add washers to take up the space. One could use this as evidence to argue the use of wedge bolts at Pinns - preferably the long double wedges Fixe manufactures - and also as an argument against the use of loctite on Pinns bolts. Jeeeeez - can of worms much? Why can't things just be easy!

I mainly bring this up because we were just out at The Citadel and there are multiple lead bolts on Costanoan suffering from this same condition, as well as other popular climbs with bolts in similar shape - Bits and Pieces on The Flumes for instance.

I also noticed all the bolts on Costanoan are mixed metals - carbon bolts with stainless hangers - causing the washer and or the bolt head to develop light surface rust. Little Javelina is the same way. One way to "cure" this would be to swap the hangers - put carbon steel hangers on these carbon steel bolts. OMG - there goes my OCD again...maybe I should just swing it  :yesnod: :thumbup: :lol: :out: :guitar: :ciappa:    

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1007 on: December 16, 2018, 10:07:58 AM »

It was the typical surface disintegration that is so common at Pinns. Unreal how quickly that can happen - this route is only a few years old and probably has not seen that many ascents. Both sleeve bolts were tight (I checked with my OCD wrench) - so the only way to correct it would be to add washers to take up the space.


Several of the older routes at Table Mountain (also sleeve bolts) have the same problem: loose hangers.

I've had fairly good luck with this problem by loosening the bolt, re-driving it with a few hammer hits, and then re-tightening it. It works more than half the time.

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1008 on: December 16, 2018, 10:22:18 AM »
Several of the older routes at Table Mountain (also sleeve bolts) have the same problem: loose hangers.

I've had fairly good luck with this problem by loosening the bolt, re-driving it with a few hammer hits, and then re-tightening it. It works more than half the time.

Thanks for the suggestion Brad. That could work if the hole was overdrilled when the bolt was placed. I always overdrill my bolts (OCD) - but I'm a bit uncomfortable banging on bolts that have been there any significant amount of time - especially since there is no way to tell if they were not overdrilled - you could damage or stress the assembly if it bottoms out. I've also had a few older carbon steel sleeve bolts snap while trying to loosen them. Tricky business.   

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1009 on: December 16, 2018, 10:31:21 AM »
It is tricky.

I think all of us over drill our holes at Pinns. At least a little (I think all the bolts I've done that to up here were drilled mechanically and are always well over drilled).

The question is: "is it enough of an over drill?" I think it's always worth trying to tighten stuff (it only takes a few light hammer taps after the bolt is loosened).

Although maybe the bigger question is: "who has a hammer with them when they come upon a loose bolt in the field?"

EDIT: When I've used this method it's almost always during a return trip to an area where I've noticed loose bolts.


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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1010 on: December 16, 2018, 11:32:36 AM »
The question is: "is it enough of an over drill?" I think it's always worth trying to tighten stuff (it only takes a few light hammer taps after the bolt is loosened).

Although maybe the bigger question is: "who has a hammer with them when they come upon a loose bolt in the field?"

EDIT: When I've used this method it's almost always during a return trip to an area where I've noticed loose bolts.

I overdrill by about half an inch at Pinns. I'm always concerned with the soft rock - that the sleeve bolt might "shave" the hole a bit as it is pounded in and the debris generated could partially fill the bottom of the hole. It also depends on how much the surface has disintegrated under the hanger. With older sleeve bolts, I have often been forced to use a breaker bar to get them loose - no way I'd get them loose with the mini crescent wrench I always carry on my harness.

I suppose I should just start at one end of the monument and work my way to the other side, tightening and refurbishing as I go. Then when I get to the other side I can turn around and start over again. Kind of like the maintenance crew on the Golden Gate Bridge.


Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1011 on: December 16, 2018, 12:25:03 PM »
Yeah, all you need is about three lifetimes....


Gavin

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1012 on: December 16, 2018, 12:53:25 PM »
We saw a party on the route (Full Circle) yesterday while climbing at Chockstone. I could hear the leader talking about how much fun the second pitch was - evidently there are lots of holes and cool holds. I was hoping to get to talk to them but it didn't happen.


That sounds like it was Joe Forrester and his wife on Full Circle; good to hear they enjoyed the second pitch so much (and obviously the rest if they thought it was 3-star worthy). I spent a lot of time drilling on that second pitch... There are some cool holds, though not too many holes or pockets. (Fortunately there were enough decent edges for drilling while hanging gingerly from hooks!) The climbing is sustained and technical, like the 1st and 3rd pitches but harder and more relentless.


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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1013 on: December 16, 2018, 01:47:55 PM »
That sounds like it was Joe Forrester and his wife on Full Circle; good to hear they enjoyed the second pitch so much (and obviously the rest if they thought it was 3-star worthy). I spent a lot of time drilling on that second pitch... There are some cool holds, though not too many holes or pockets. (Fortunately there were enough decent edges for drilling while hanging gingerly from hooks!) The climbing is sustained and technical, like the 1st and 3rd pitches but harder and more relentless.

Maybe I misunderstood him while I was eaves-dropping. Sustained and technical...well...so much for that  :lol: :out: :prrr:

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1014 on: December 16, 2018, 02:45:42 PM »
JC, the mixed metals on the bolts of Costanoan was an issue I did not realize when I replaced the bolts about 20 years ago.  The holes should be over drilled, so I think there is space for pounding in the bolt a bit.

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1015 on: December 16, 2018, 03:21:02 PM »

JC, the mixed metals on the bolts of Costanoan was an issue I did not realize when I replaced the bolts about 20 years ago...


No-one quite understood that issue 20 years ago. Hell, we were all still thinking that carbon steel 3/8 inch bolts were absolutely the ticket (which really they were to those of us that "grew up" on 1/4 inch buttonheads and Star Dryvins).

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1016 on: December 16, 2018, 03:48:06 PM »
JC, the mixed metals on the bolts of Costanoan was an issue I did not realize when I replaced the bolts about 20 years ago.  The holes should be over drilled, so I think there is space for pounding in the bolt a bit.

I don't think it a big deal at Pinns unless it is subject to a lot of water...which...those bolts are not. We could go look at it together.

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1017 on: December 16, 2018, 05:40:49 PM »
Glad I never lead that route...un-safe bolts. I might have to go inspect the route.

Who knew how much of a death trap son of dawn wall was.

I'm not worthy.

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1018 on: December 17, 2018, 07:39:49 AM »
Glad I never lead that route...un-safe bolts. I might have to go inspect the route.

Who knew how much of a death trap son of dawn wall was.

You might want to open the window and get some fresh air  :lol:

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1019 on: January 01, 2019, 10:32:57 AM »
I added two more routes to the list today:

-  468.8 Swing to the Right  5.6

-  468.9 Can You Spare a Square?  5.3

And I've got three more new routes to add too, but those three are in the new guidebook working text and I'll have to wait to post them here until Ellen updates my hand-written, chicken scratch notes into that list (then I can just copy/paste).