Author Topic: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)  (Read 2792341 times)

briham89

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1220 on: May 18, 2021, 10:01:53 PM »
Quote
Oh yeah... no one who isn't our age reads this forum anyway.

Ahem

clink

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1221 on: May 19, 2021, 11:18:23 AM »

 You are an old soul.
Causing trouble when not climbing.

BAP

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1222 on: May 25, 2021, 09:26:42 AM »
The weather was unusually cool last Saturday, so Bob Walton and I climbed Flying None again.  I lead P1 and P3, Bob lead P2 and P4.  We both loved the route.  Here are some photos. 


;

;

;

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Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1223 on: May 25, 2021, 09:33:47 AM »
Nicely done (on the none).

That second photo (of you) is one of the best shots I've ever seen of you. That's a good shot of Bob too.

BAP

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1224 on: May 25, 2021, 10:07:39 AM »
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That second photo (of you) is one of the best shots I've ever seen of you.

Bob took most photos on the climb.  Of course he also did fabulous leads on P2 and P4.  We worked very well together.

Thank you Bob!

waldo

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1225 on: May 25, 2021, 06:10:01 PM »
  We worked very well together.

Thank you Bob!


Thanks for putting up with the senior citizen! You got the hard moves at the beginning pitch 3 and that first pitch is work as soon as you step off the deck. It was a fine day!

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1226 on: November 08, 2021, 05:26:13 PM »
I put in the top/fourth pitch anchor for The Flying None yesterday and changed the route description to reflect that.



Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1227 on: December 04, 2021, 05:00:17 PM »
Sally Port  5.8 *

I still think it's 5.7 (if you Goddamn know how to climb chimneys). But as usual, I will defer to my superiors.


Yo-so-mighty

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1228 on: December 04, 2021, 06:55:40 PM »

Brad considering me a Superior? Mind=blown!

clink

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1229 on: Yesterday at 06:00:08 AM »

 Was it a case of proper attire? Rugby shirt vs something slippery.
 I thought you liked the other Sally, what happened?
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1230 on: Yesterday at 03:42:22 PM »
Funny that the phrase/name Sally Port isn't commonly understood. A sally port is a secret or at least hard to see exit point on a castle. A typical use of a sally port would have been for a besieged castle garrison to send out a raid on the besieging force to throw it off its timetable (such a raid is called a sally).

It is a deep chimney route on The Citadel. And what is a citadel but a castle?

I explained the definition to Dawson when we worked on it three weeks ago. Sure enough, the night before we finished it he was watching Game of Thrones and they planned a raid through a sally port in the show.


Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1231 on: Yesterday at 03:50:18 PM »
OK, let us start a game of rate that route. Jenn and I finished it today. The route description is not yet done, but it will start this way:

A fun 45 foot aid route which accesses two free climbs above.  The aid consists of...

The climb is on a 100 degree wall. In other words almost all of it overhangs by 10 degrees. This is the gear I placed to lead the pitch today:

-  bolt

-  hook

-  hook

-  hook

-  two fixed pins three inches apart driven very deeply into a horizontal slot/crack

-  bolt

-  bolt

-  hook

-  bolt

-  hook

-  bolt

-  hook

-  bolt

-  bolt

And the last bolt was followed by a few 5.5 free moves to a three bolt anchor (there is a slight stance at the two bolts I set up for rappel, but it is not enough for two climbers to hang on a vertical wall and so a third bolt allows a slightly more comfortable sling belay).

The first three hooks are in incut, deep to very deep pockets in good to very good rock (one could hang a portaledge from them). The upper hooks are almost as bomber, although the holes are not quite as deep.

So this route, The Joy of Hooking: is it 5.5 A1 or is it 5.5 A2?

By the way, the two free climbing routes in the streaks above will be Having Hooked and Once a Hooker.

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1232 on: Yesterday at 04:22:12 PM »
Here's the first hook, a standard Black Diamond in a deep hole:







Second hook:




Third (a two inch diameter Fish hook):







The two pins (a long Lost Arrow and and equally long 3/4 inch angle):



Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1233 on: Yesterday at 04:32:08 PM »
Placing the second bolt (a little less than 20 feet up) a few weeks ago:




clink

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1234 on: Yesterday at 06:40:38 PM »
Pins at Pinns. Cool hook placements, oh, and A2.
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Yo-so-mighty

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1235 on: Yesterday at 10:39:28 PM »
All the hooks and pins I see look pretty bombproof. I

clink

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1236 on: Today at 05:44:41 AM »
Quote
All the hooks and pins I see look pretty bombproof. I

 Looks like I'm caught between a rock and a master debater.
Causing trouble when not climbing.

Brad Young

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1237 on: Today at 07:46:50 AM »
Caleb got ambushed by this new "apostrophe thing" on the site.

He texted me what he wanted to say:

"I think it is probably A1 in the original aiding rating system. My reasoning is that the rating should be given based off of how solid the placement is, not at how physical the upward movement is. All the hooks looked bombproof. I guess in the new wave rating system, you could make a case for A2. Since a few of those placements may have been awkward."

And I replied: "Two hook placements take some actual care to place (the others you could just throw them over the edge). But they are pretty damn good once they are placed."

Caleb also said that Jon could stick it (my paraphrase).

mungeclimber

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1238 on: Today at 08:10:10 AM »
Caleb, are you sure that's what you meant? "Strenuous" is clearly included in Xavier's definition.

80s big wall aid ratings... https://bigwalls.net/climb/Ratings.html

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Ratings
A0: Also known as "french-free", using gear to make progress, but generally no aiders required. Examples: Half Dome regular route, sections of the Nose route on El Cap, the first two pitches of the West Face (either a quick 5.10, A0 with three points of aid, or tricky 5.11 c).
A1: Easy aid: placements straightforward and solid. No risk of any piece pulling out. Aiders generally required. Fast and simple for C1, the hammerless corresponding grade, but not necessarily fast and simple for nailing pitches. Examples: (clean) the non-5.12 version of the Salathe headwall, Prodigal Son on Angel's Landing and Touchstone Wall in Zion.

A2: Moderate aid: placements generally solid but possible awkward and strenuous to place. Maybe a tenuous placement or two above good pro with no fall-danger. Examples: the Right side of El Cap Tower (nailing), Moonlight Buttress and Space Shot in Zion (clean).

A2+: Like A2, but possibly several tenuous placements above good pro. 20 to 30 foot fall potential but with little danger of hitting anything. Route finding abilities may be required. Examples: the new wave grades of Mescalito and the Shield on El Cap, the Kor route on the Titan in the Fisher Towers area.

A3: Hard aid: testing methods required. Involves many tenuous placements in a row. Generally solid placements (which could hold a fall) found within a pitch. Long fall potential up to 50 feet (6-8 placements ripping), but generally safe from serious danger. Usually several hours required to complete a pitch, due to complexity of placements. Examples: The Pacific Ocean Wall lower crux pitches (30 feet between original bolts on manky fixed copperheads), Standing Rock in the desert (the crux being a traverse on the first pitch with very marginal gear with 30 foot swing potential into a corner).

A3+:Like A3, but with dangerous fall potential. Tenuous placements (like a marginal tied-off pin or a hook an a fractured edge) after long stretches of body-weight pieces (here body-weight placements are considered for all practical purposes any piece of gear not solid enough to hold a fall). Potential to get hurt if good judgement is not exercised. Time required generally exceeds 3 hours for experienced aid climbers. Example: Pitch 3 of "Days of No Future" on Angel's Landing in Zion, the crux being 50 feet of birdbeaks and tied-off blades in soft sandstone followed by a blind, marginal Friend placement in loose rock which was hard to test properly, all this above a ledge.

A4: Serious aid: lots of danger. 60 to 100 foot fall potentials common, with uncertain landings far below. Examples: pitches on the Kaliyuga on Half Dome and the Radiator on Abraham in Zion.

A4+: More serious than A4. these leads generally take many hours to complete and require the climber to endure long periods of uncertainty and fear, often requiring a ballet-like efficiency of movement in order not to upset the tenuous integrity of marginal placements. Examples: the "Welcome to Wyoming" pitch (formerly the"Psycho Killer" pitch) on the Wyoming Sheep Ranch on El Cap, requiring 50 feet of climbing through a loose, broken, and rotten Diorite roof with very marginal, scary placements like stoppers wedged in between two loose, shifting, rope-slicing slivers of rock, all this over a big jagged loose ledge which would surely break and maim bones. The pitch is then followed by 100 feet of hooking interspersed with a few rivets to the belay.

A5: Extreme aid. Nothing really trustworthy of catching a fall for the entire pitch. Rating should be reserved only for pitches with no bolts or rivets (holes) for the entire pitch. Examples: pitches on the Jolly Roger and the Wyoming Sheep Ranch on El Cap, Jim Beyer routes in Arches National Park and the Fisher Towers.

A6: (Theoretical grade) A5 climbing with marginal belays which will not hold a fall.

New wave - though I'm not sure this is version is complete... http://www.alpinist.com/p/climbing_notes/grades

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A1: Easy aid. No risk of a piece pulling out.
A2:Moderate aid. Solid gear that is more difficult to place.
A2+: 10-meter fall potential from tenuous placements, but without danger.
A3: Hard aid. Many tenuous placements in a row; 15-meter fall potential; could require several hours for a single pitch.
A3+: A3 with dangerous fall potential.
A4: Serious aid. 30-meter ledge-fall potential from continuously tenuous gear.
A4+: Even more serious, with even greater fall potential, where each pitch could take many hours to lead.
A5: Extreme aid. Nothing on the entire pitch can be trusted to hold a fall.
A6: A5 climbing with belay anchors that won
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

BAP

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Re: Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)
« Reply #1239 on: Today at 09:44:34 AM »
Two more photos of Brad on Joy of Hooking