Newly Established and Found Routes (Since the '07 Guidebook)

[NOAL]

I prefer that when a route is rated R you will be required to do a move at the rating of the climb being run out. Then in the climbing area's guidebook this system is explained in the introduction.

[mungeclimber]

Hey Munge (and anyone else on here). How about Friday and Saturday? Up here?

Friday on the road, up late at night. I wish I could climb with you. I will still wish you a happy birthday!

Saturday we'll have family over at the Chateau, Mrs. Munge, mom, nephews and their parents. Doing 'xmas' dinner early with the kids. Swing by?

[mungeclimber]

I prefer that when a route is rated R you will be required to do a move at the rating of the climb being run out. Then in the climbing area's guidebook this system is explained in the introduction.

We should probably split this thread out on its own. But the harder question is when an route has say a competent leader at 10b, but 9 feet of 10a above the last bolt, and one move of 10b at 11 feet.  R rated?

[Brad Young]

We should probably split this thread out on its own...

Feel free. Or not. As a suggested title use: "How Many Angels Can Dance on the Head of a Pin?"

As the most beautiful woman in the world would say (intentionally mixing metaphors): "it's not rocket surgery."

[Brad Young]

"The question 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?' (alternatively 'how many angels can stand on the point of a pin?') is a reductio ad absurdum of medieval scholasticism in general, and its angelology in particular, as represented by figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas. It is first recorded in the 17th century, in the context of Protestant apologetics. The question has also been linked to the fall of Constantinople, with the imagery of scholars debating about minutiae while the Turks besieged the city.

In modern usage, it therefore has been used as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value, or questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence, while more urgent concerns pile up."

   

[squiddo]

this is thread drift for sure! Entertaining and thoughtful. Also the mail server is about to fall over from all the "instant" notifications on updates.

[F4?]

I like carrots!!!!
 

[mynameismud]

No one suggested an R should come after 6' above gear. The R rating is very clearly about a competent leader at the grade would find it run out/hit a ledge. 5.4R leader would be scared on 5.4 moves where the gear is say 10' above last pro. But a 5.10d R leader, competent at 10d, and not 11a, would find that doing 10d 10' past the last bolt is also scary.

Dos Equis at 5.8 is a slab. You will hit something if you fall, namely the lower angle section. It is a fair distance from the last bolt to the anchor and there is a move there. Just because you can do it without being scared, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve an "R" on a piece of paper that one pays the privilege for.

When was the last time you got on it?
 

I have not done it for a while but I do remember the first time I did it the route seemed a bit heady.  I have lead it several times, never thought there was a potential to hit anything.

[mynameismud]

We should probably split this thread out on its own. But the harder question is when an route has say a competent leader at 10b, but 9 feet of 10a above the last bolt, and one move of 10b at 11 feet.  R rated?

no, 10 feet ( 3 meters ) does not equate to R.

[squiddo]

no, 10 feet ( 3 meters ) does not equate to R.

Everyone knows thats a solo.... Agreed, not an R although at the Pinns it might feel like it. If for the rock quality.

[Brad Young]

I should be clear too regarding my above posts.

I'm not trying to be too flip, not trying to imply that "danger" ratings don't matter. They've become normal in guidebooks and they can play an important role. I take these ratings very seriously and, as with all aspects of the book, I apply a lot of thought and effort to them.

Rather, the point I was trying to make is that I don't find talking about them in the abstract particularly enlightening. Now, not finding the conversation enlightening, I suppose I could have just kept quiet instead of making those last two posts. Yeah, I definitely could have 

[NOAL]

Rather, the point I was trying to make is that I don't find talking about them in the abstract particularly enlightening.  

I thought the point was to try to flex your intellectual prowess.

   But the harder question is when an route has say a competent leader at 10b, but 9 feet of 10a above the last bolt, and one move of 10b at 11 feet.  R rated?

yeah that is not R.  Was that meant to be some kind of lame trick question?

[JC w KC redux]

Last time I split a topic I screwed it up and didn't know how to undo it.

Mr Mud needs to take the helm...

[clink]

Standard ratings may involve fractures.  R means compound fractures and possible heli ride to a trauma unit, but survivable with modern medicine and a partner who knows basic first aid. X, you call the coroner not SAR.

[mungeclimber]

yeah that is not R.  Was that meant to be some kind of lame trick question?

Neither lame, nor trick. The greater the distance fallen, the more force that applies to your ankles...

Imagine doing that off the belay. That's a factor 2 fall.

http://wallrat.com/PDF_Files/forcesinleadfalls.pdf

At that distance you can definitely snap bone even in a "clean" fall.  So how is that not 'R'?

Overhanging terrain would be different since the likelihood of hitting anything is minimized.

[NOAL]

It is much easier if you state your point of view in short concise sentences rather than to try to get me to say it.

[NOAL]

Here are some old routes at Pinns (5.3 and below) with R's that have limited pro (gear or sling knobs) or bolts that become useless quickly.

Smiling Simian Easy Route 5.0R
Third Sister Approach NE Gully 5.0R
Fourth Sister North Rib 5.1R
Dwarf Pinnacle 5.2R
Third Sister Approach SW Corner 5.2R
Tiburcio's Ambush 5.2R
Toog's Terror 5.2R
Smokestack Regular Route 5.3R
The Camel South Face 5.3R 

Now that I am home I see that these and others have R ratings in the 2007 guide.  Never noticed that.  My first guidebook for Pinnacles was the Rubine guide.  Never consulted Brad's for that info. 

[F4?]

Use a tape measure. Bolt every 6-8 feet.

[mynameismud]

there are people arguing for that.  I seen no need to split.  There is one given on this forum, thread drift, always.

[clink]

I see the need for a banana split.